LET'S ARGUE ABOUT VIDEO GAMES

[Pub Lover]

Originally Posted by T-Rex

Personally, I laugh a lot more when playing the Wii so it's my favourite console with company. Alone, I would say it's only 50% as good.

So your advice to GW is to get off the internet and make some real goddamn friends?

[T-Rex]

Originally Posted by Pub Lover

So your advice to GW is to get off the internet and make some real goddamn friends?

Word.

[Kybo Ren]

Originally Posted by Pub Lover

Which is the bigger & least tapped market?

big untapped market: the elderly. awhile back i'm playin cod3 on x360, and a couple of ww2 vets were "trying it out, reliving old times". they got slaughtered though.

personally i think someone gave the headsets to grandpa-

[Chojin]

Honest abe:

I think it's hard to say that Nintendo doesn't tap the hardcore market when it releases fanboy elitist shit like Super Smash Bros and Metroid Prime 3.

If you're talking about a sheer percentage of games that are rated M FOR MATURE, then, sure, I guess? Though I'd wager at least half of the "hardcore" franchises around these days are rated T.

Also the article damning nintendo was from MSN - Do you not know what the "MS" in MSN stands for?

[Emu]

Micro...soft?

As in the makers of the XBox 360??

[executioneer]

do you guys remember that news story back from the 90s that said, basically, that nintendon't

or was it the late 80s i can't remember now

[Fathom Zero]

You've made our point, though. Nintendo appeals to hardcore Nintendo fans. Not the hardcore or even medium core people that buy generally good games.

Luckily, it looks like the 3rd-party stuff is starting to pick up a bit. Wiiware will definitely bring it up a bit.

[Chojin]

And Microsoft appeals to hardcore Microsoft fans. Are you trying to say that Microsoft represents TRUE gaming, while Nintendo - who's been around longer than any of their competitors - doesn't?

[Phoenix Gamma]

Nintendo appeals more towards Nintendo fans with is barely-updated sequels (really, Zelda puzzles haven't advanced at all, Mario's still collecting stars, and the Pokemon games are all the same,) and now the more casual crowd. Obviously people outside of those groups play too, but in terms of focus, Nintendo's hell bent on their established franchises and casual gaming.

Those are the two biggest demographics in gaming, so I'd say Nintendo's fanbase represents the majority of gamers. I won't dare take a stab at guessing the ratio of the fanbases, but I'd say the majority definitely resides in Ninty's camp.

Also "hardcore gamer" is a such stupid term. It brings up images of fat, sweaty, hairy losers who go around all "Yea I'm a motherfucking hardcore gamer I totally game way harder than anyone else". Seriously now.

Originally Posted by executioneer

do you guys remember that news story back from the 90s that said, basically, that nintendon't

or was it the late 80s i can't remember now

90's. lol advertising.

[Fathom Zero]

I'm not saying I just support Microsoft. I'm all for anybody that makes kick-ass games and Nintendo doesn't do that for me anymore. Microsoft Game Studios has been putting out a lot of cool stuff for me that I've really been getting into recently. And fuck that seniority bullshit. Whatever, so what if Microsoft wasn't the OG and it's a relatively young player. I'm not a really retro guy. I'm the generation that came after you. I grew up on the Playstation. But I also remember my Super Nintendo, I remember Mr. Do and Super Buster Bros. and Mario Kart and Star Fox and Super Mario World. I still love those games. But they are the past and I don't love them enough to care if they're all smashed together in some generic sport or fighting game. Yes, I like Mario Party 3. It holds memories for me. That game specifically, not any spinoffs or sequals, that game.

I've got no attachment to Metroid, though.

I don't think anybody represents true gaming right now. Microsoft's too young, Nintendo's forgotten what brought people to the table in the first place, and Sony? Well, they're lingering by a thread but still hanging on. I'll be interested to see what happens to them in the years to come. All we get now is mere glimpses of TRUE gaming. And I don't just mean the first and second party devs under console makers' wings, either. I'm talking fresh blood, third party developers. I think attention will shift to Indie Games (I hate that label.) Smaller, independent game developers given more money and more time.

That's not to say that there will only be independent developers in the future. If that was to be, then we'd be waiting forever for a game to be released and just grow impatient and lose interest. Not every game has to be a gem, but not every one has to purposely play down either.

Why can't people just look into a game that everyone can enjoy? Does it cost too much in money? Can one not hope to please that many?

Whatever. I'll just sit back and play my GTA IV and my No More Heroes and probably look back on these times fondly. In short, a nod to Microsoft, a "fuck you" to Nintendo, and a glance-over towards Sony.

[Phoenix Gamma]

You can't please everyone. You can go into the desert, find some stranded person, give them chocolate ice cream, and they'll tell you they don't like chocolate.

Also, it's not a "fuck you" to Nintendo if you're playing No More Heroes on their console. They have your munnies.

Also, the 360 needs some games that aren't shooters, racers, or Madden. Talk about appealing to a limited demographic.

[Chojin]

So what - in your opinion - "brought people to the table in the first place"?

It would seem that that's the entire POINT of the Wii and DS.

PG - Can't disagree with much of what you're saying; Nintendo whores the hell out of its franchises -which appeal to the "hardcore" market - and somehow ends up branded as a kiddie game manufacturer. I just don't get it. Fathom - EITHER THEY MAKE KID GAMES OR THEY MAKE HARDCORE GAMES. YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS, SENATOR.

[Fathom Zero]

I damn well can. By "bring people to the table" I meant the new guys and stuff, of course. I also meant everybody else. Nintendo fans will buy Nintendo games, a given with anything. "Casual" gamers, and by that I mean not just the ones that play Peggle for hours, will buy anything that evidences a gimmick. What about the more discerning person than someone who will buy the colorful game that is not yet a Nintendo fan? I was this person a couple years ago.

I had a subscription to Game Informer, I looked at reviews, and I looked at gameplay videos and tried to decide which game to buy with which console. Albeit, I never had a Gamecube. I'm getting one in the near future. I would get a Wii, and I probably still will, but someone's giving it to me. I see some good games I want for it.

Regardless, if a million people stopped buying Mario Party 42, Nintendo would still be making money hand over fist. I don't give a flying fuck about Mario or Samus or Fox or Link anymore. WHERE'S THE NEW STUFF? Why rehash the same characters? It's nice to have a throwback every once in a while, but when your entire business is based on characters you've invented nigh on twenty years ago, well I just can't get behind you. Even if everyone else does.

[Phoenix Gamma]

I can't tell if you disagree with us or not.

Also, WiiSports, WiiFit, etc. is your new stuff. Enjoy playing videogames with your whole family (I know I am!)

And if I wanted to apply a technicality to your last statement, Fire Emblem doesn't recycle characters from 20 years ago, and neither does Advance Wars, even if the gameplay is similar. Also Custom Robo, Golden Sun, Mother, Pikmin, Elite Beat Agents, Excite Truck, Trace Memory, and Nintendogs, to name a few. Now toss in WiiSports, WiiFit, etc., etc. and compare it to Mario, Zelda, Donkey Kong, Metroid, and Pokemon, and keep in mind that sequels from Camp Nintendo usually come out at least 3 years a part, and you'll realize that they're more balanced.

To quote my favorite behemoth, Reggie, who was asked if Nintendo's mystery winter blockbuster was Zelda:

You just got Twilight Princess!

[Fathom Zero]

I just don't think Nintendo is the fucking be-all-end-all of video games that people say the are. But neither is Microsoft nor Sony. Fan-boys disgust me more than anything else, more than rapists.

My whole family does not want to play Wii Fit. They don't get it. EBA isn't getting a sequal, Nintendogs is shit, Mother isn't going to come to America any time soon. Custom Robo is okay, but I played it before when it was called Virtual-On. Great game. I like Pikmin a lot. After the first Golden Sun, I kinda got bored of the second. Fantastic game that really pushes the GBA, though. I like Professor Layton. Games like this, though, seemed to get pushed over to the side while everyone crowds around the newest iteration of something else. I need third party developers with good new intellectual properties. Dead Rising, for instance. Great game and I'd like to see another.

I don't know. I guess nothing ever seems to jump out at me anymore. I've become disinterested in games, but I've come back later this year.

I'm telling you, WiiWare can bring me back.

By the by, No More Heroes is published by Ubisoft.

[10,000 Volt Ghost]

Really? Rapists are pretty bad.

I am really hooked on Army of 2 though. I haven't played a good two player game like that on a console since Doom Troopers. I've pretty much given up on videogames years ago since they stopped making rpgs that aren't mmo's.

I have that same feeling that Marty Mcfly gets in Back to the Future: 2, where he plays the western shooter arcade game in the future. Then some kids make fun of him because the game requires hands to play it.

[Chojin]

Fathom - What does Ubisoft have to do with anything? They're a publisher. They weren't there when the game was being developed.

Also, you can say the exact same 'franchise rape' thing about ANY company's 1st-party titles. The reason Nintendo has so many of them is because they sell well. Nintendo also converts a lot of 3rd parties into 1st parties, so their "non-existent 3rd party support" exists partly because they buy successful 3rd parties. Are those 3rd parties no longer successful at that point? Microsoft and Sony try to do this too.

I'm also not saying that Nintendo is the be-all-end-all of video games, but I think they represent the direction the industry should be going if it doesn't want to continue losing customers year after year and eventually become irrelevant. Video games are about fun, and judging from the results you've seen so far with the Wii and DS, Nintendo is providing the bulk of that and not excluding everyone not in the MALE 18-25 demographic.

Also, you have the same idiot fanboys that drool over GTA 4, Madden 200X, and Halo 3 to blame for Smash Bros 9 and Mario Party 2023. That isn't a Nintendo problem. These people aren't "gamers" in the traditional sense, they're punk-ass kids who play maybe 3 games a year and rely on industry hype to tell them what everyone else will be playing. Nintendo traditionally doesn't hype games until they're already out, and even then they only do it to support their 1st party titles. Most 3rd parties - for whatever reason - won't spend the bread to market their Nintendo games to any successful degree. Microsoft and Sony will deign to pick up a large part of the marketing tab, and this is probably Nintendo's biggest error.

As for game informer, I suggest you read any other magazine if you'd like some actual Nintendo coverage. I've never seen a publication not formally associated with a brand be so unabashedly biased in my life.

[Phoenix Gamma]

Long post is looooong:

Originally Posted by Fathom Zero

I just don't think Nintendo is the fucking be-all-end-all of video games that people say the are. But neither is Microsoft nor Sony. Fan-boys disgust me more than anything else, more than rapists.

Delicious hyperbole, or whacked out priorities?

My whole family does not want to play Wii Fit.

Great. That's relevant to my point (that Nintendo has other games besides the popular ones.)

EBA isn't getting a sequal, Nintendogs is shit, Mother isn't going to come to America any time soon. Custom Robo is okay, but I played it before when it was called Virtual-On. Great game. I like Pikmin a lot. After the first Golden Sun, I kinda got bored of the second. Fantastic game that really pushes the GBA, though. I like Professor Layton.

I never said they were good or anything. I said they're not whored out franchises. Oi vey. As a side note, Custom Robo and Virtual-On are quite different. That's like comparing a hamburger with a hot dog; sure they're both processes meat between bread, but they're different. Also, Professor Layton is 3rd Party.

I'm telling you, WiiWare can bring me back.

So you praise a copycat XBLA? I mean, I suck Nintycock, but even I know it's probably going to pale in comparison to what's already been offered for quite some time. Putting faith in WiiWare to be some sort of messiah is like putting faith in SEGA to make a good Sonic game. There might be a tiny glimmer of hope, but don't count on it. (inb4 Sonic debate).

By the by, No More Heroes is published by Ubisoft.

By the way, what does that have to do with Nintendo franchises?

Also, Chojin hit the nail on the head about everything. Everyone franchise-rapes (Capcom, MOTHERFUCKING EA, Rockstar, SEGA, SquareEnix, etc.) At Nintendo's broadening the demographic so that not all gamers are associated with the same trash we see running their mouths on XBox Live.

EDIT: Well here's an article posted today that's of interest to the discussion.

[Fathom Zero]

Originally Posted by Chojin

As for game informer, I suggest you read any other magazine if you'd like some actual Nintendo coverage. I've never seen a publication not formally associated with a brand be so unabashedly biased in my life.

Like Nintendo Power? :P

Y'see, that was sarcasm, as Nintendo Power would obviously cater towards enjoyers of Nintendo.

Originally Posted by Phoenix Gamma

Also, it's not a "fuck you" to Nintendo if you're playing No More Heroes on their console. They have your munnies.

My argument is about games, not consoles. That's what I was getting at with the fact that it was published by Ubisoft.

I'm done here. Give yourselves a high-five. Companies can do what they will to make money. But if that means I don't like their shit, then they're just not going to get anymore money from me. Nor will I give them any props or something like that for being successful.

[Phoenix Gamma]

::high fives Chojin::

It doesn't really matter any way you slice it. You're just looking at this as half-empty. Besides, I don't think you even looked at half the points made.

[Fathom Zero]

Your points are gay.

Chojin, when are you gonna review Battle of the Bands for ErickandEmily?

[Chojin]

Originally Posted by Fathom Zero

Like Nintendo Power? :P

Y'see, that was sarcasm, as Nintendo Power would obviously cater towards enjoyers of Nintendo.

Originally Posted by Chojin

As for game informer, I suggest you read any other magazine if you'd like some actual Nintendo coverage. I've never seen a publication not formally associated with a brand be so unabashedly biased in my life.

Also xbox and playstation already have their own official magazines, they don't need a 3rd party rag (which is distributed by the truckload at gamestops and EBs) masquerading as an unbiased source, too.

Originally Posted by Fathom Zero

why yes chojin your point does make sense now that i actually read it

Originally Posted by Fathom zero

My argument is about games, not consoles. That's what I was getting at with the fact that it was published by Ubisoft.

I still don't understand what you're getting at, here.

What gets me upset about the industry is ironically the same thing (in theory) that 360 and PS3 fanboys are upset about - a new generation of non-gamers swooping in and making the next few years of games all about THEM. For me, that already happened years ago - it was the Mortal Kombat generation that weren't (or aren't) old enough to play mature games and ever since then, that's all they'll play. For them, it's the MINIGAME FAGS who seek to rid the planet of the good ol' fashioned bloodshed this industry has been built on for as long as they can remember (1992). And I wonder, do they have any idea where this industry started? Because infinite play games like Donkey Kong and Pac-Man reek of MINIGAME to me.

And I'll always respect the company more that's willing to put out a virtual boy or two just to do something different.

[Phoenix Gamma]

Originally Posted by Fathom Zero

Your points are gay.

People besides me made way better points so I guess they're gay too.

God, Hateboys are way worse than fanboys.

[Fathom Zero]

Yeah, you're just a big buncha gay dudes. I bet you could get a vidya games show on Logo.

[Guitar Woman]

ICE BURN