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Originally Posted by El Blanco
They haven't had the cultural rebirth, which is exactly what a renaissance is. They haven't had that.
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I would say that the Turks in 1453 were a hell of a lot different than the Turks under Suleyman.
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Originally Posted by El Blanco
All third string quarterbacks when compared to the Ottoman Empire. they were the undisputed champs of the ME.
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yes, thank you, I know
but it was not always so.
the point that I was trying to make was that these were all powerful Muslim nations (not all at the same time) that (more or less) prospered without Christian intervention. the Timurids and the Mamlukes fell before the European Renaissance even reached its zenith, but they were richly cultured, militarily strong countries. basically what I'm saying is this, the Christian Renaissance didn't advance Muslim culture the way that you are thinking.
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Originally Posted by El Blanco
Prior to the Reformation, most Europeans called themselves Christians. Some nobles used terms like Saxxon and Norman, but most official acts were done as Christians. Afterwards, you see Englishman, Spaniard, Surrender Monkey....I mean French. That happened because power was taken from Rome. It was no longer the only place that ruled.
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well, I guess it was mostly hot Christian on Christian action before the Reformation because, apart from the Crusades, all their attention was focused on Europe. things weren't as simple as "Christian" instead of "Englishman" or "Castillian."
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