Perndog:

[kahljorn]

What kind of "satanism" do you study/practice, if any? Do you study Thelema, enochian or "Laveyan Satanism"? Are you familiar with the Kabbalah, or Qabalah? Qabalistic.

[Perndog]

There is only one kind of Satanism, and anyone who will tell you otherwise is misappropriating the name.

Calling a Thelemite, Luciferian, Setian, or miscellaneous devil-worshipper a Satanist is like calling a Muslim a Christian.

I am a Satanist, not any of the above, and no, I am not familiar with the Kabbalah. I hear it is about mysticism, and I have my own brand of magic which suits me just fine.

[kahljorn]

So you don't study any other occult practices other than just straight up, "Laveyan Satanism"?

You are, I'm sure, aware that despite the name being, "Satanism" and people proclaiming it is the, "First church of satan" just about every function and form of Satanism is built off of another occult practice?

I've never really met a Satanist who doesn't study the occult; most of the one's who do listen to death metal and pretend they kill nuns and burn churches.

Oh yea, and what is this?

http://www.phenyx-creations.com/BOS/...of%20Satan.pdf

And do you have an online link to the Satanic Bible, I don't want to pay for it.

[CMonkey]

Post deleted.

[Perndog]

The First Church of Satan is a defunct group of wannabes. You probably mean the Church of Satan.

If the people you know spend a lot of time studying the occult and pretend they kill nuns and burn churches, you haven't met any Satanists.

Satanism has little to do with the occult except for the use of ritual magic, which is seen in quite a different light by us than by occultniks. Most Satanists openly ridicule said occultniks. Have you actually studied the religion? If not, you should probably get yourself a basic understanding before you start asking questions.

And as for the matter of definition, it's simple, really. Before Anton LaVey, there was no Satanism. There were devil-worshippers, there were occultniks, there were Thelemites, and there were all manner of assorted weirdos. Then he came along, got a little social club together, and eventually formulated a religion out of it, which he called Satanism. To be as terse and blunt as possible...finders keepers. Explain what right the pretenders have to the name. Regarding "every part of Satanism is built off something else," well so is Thelema and you don't see a lot of debate over what is really Thelema and what isn't.

I notice your link has a copyright date of 2000. As for what it is: mostly, a bunch of pretentious bullshit. For one thing, Dr. LaVey had a popular quote which I quite agree with: "Those who spell magic with a k aren't."

No, I do not have an online link to the Satanic Bible. We have things called copyright laws around here, and if you can't afford an eight dollar book you should have more important things to do than discuss philosophy.

And I hate when I forget to log out of my character accounts before posting.

[kahljorn]

I meant the first as what La Vey formed, I use Quotes on key words Phrases that may be twists, generally, or related to another quoted quote.

And I meant the other way about the satanists I know, they are purely "Satanic" and do not practice any other occultist things.

My original intention was actually going to be to ask you a question of something either of Thelema or Enochian... I can't remember which at the moment I'm too high. I remember it had to do with the "Columns", I think it was Enochian. That's the generally confusing one. I wanted to know if you knew how to read the columns properly.

[Perndog]

http://www.geocities.com/alex_sumner...Pentagrams.htm

Try that. Looks like bullshit to me, but get out of it what you will.

[kahljorn]

Yea, I had read something like that too. It's weird shit, that's why I wanted to find 'someone' who studied that crap.

I like their little astral plane thing. It's interesting. Watchtowers, substructures. I love the Astral Plane. I'm about to go astral traveling(in some form) in a few.

[Anonymous]

Originally Posted by Perndog

We have things called copyright laws around here

Ah, one of Satan's greatest innovations.

[Emu]

I thought the Church of Satan was actually a group of atheists who like to mentally harrass very gullible Christians like Bob Larson.

[Immortal Goat]

Satanists can't be atheists, because atheists don't believe in any higher power.

[Emu]

I know, but the story I heard was that they used the name The Church of Satan just to bug people.

[Perndog]

You morons.

1) The Church of Satan's actual members rarely harass Christians because there are much better forms of entertainment. Like South Park.

2) Satanists *don't* believe in a higher power.

[camacazio]

There are a lot of different views on Satan--the red goat-man, Lucifer the fallen angel, etc. Which one does Satanism believe?

[Perndog]

The reality behind Satan is simply the dark evolutionary force of entropy that permeates all of nature and provides the drive for survival and propagation inherent in all living things. Satan is not a conscious entity to be worshipped, rather a reservoir of power inside each human to be tapped at will.

-Peter H. Gilmore, High Priest

[ziggytrix]

That's the stupidest line of bullshit I've heard in any religion ever, and I'm a fucking Discordian!

[The One and Only...]

The fact that they call such a force "Satan" proves that they like to arbitrarily piss-off Christians, regardless of whether or not they admit it.

[camacazio]

Severl forms of Christianity, I forget which ones (there's a church for one at the end of my street--who knows what they do there) view Satan like that.

[The One and Only...]

They are probably as prominent as radical sects that view God as the all the energy and matter in the universe from whence we evolved, and embrace radical environmentalism as the only way to return to the Garden of Eden.

[camacazio]

Oh, that's right, they're "Methodist"

[kahljorn]

Discrodia is hilarious.

[Anonymous]

I used to play the Discordian in my high school band.

[Vibecrewangel]

YAY PERN!

So nice to see someone who understandstheir own religion. Much like most Wiccans...I tend to dispise most Satanists for having no clue about what their supposed religion.

[Helm]

Rant follows. I'm just bored.

I've read the satanic bible on two different occasions in the last three years, and it should tell you something that I was openminded enough that I chose to read it again the second time after my knowledge in the generic occult was more significant. I did so with as little bias as I could, but my impression of it was -whereas more founded - much the same to the one I had as a 17 year old.

This book is firstly, badly written. Very derivative of O.T.O occultism & tradition (said O.T.O and general Gardrerianism in turn is mostly a sum of middle age european mysticism. So an immitation of an immitation). It's theopractical underbelly is borrowed from Qaballism (numerology-by-numbers) which is a very ironic oxymoron, given the purpose of Satanism. The referings to the practise of Enochian magic are childish. The tone itself adresses the reader with insulting presuppositions as to his intelligence, general knowledge of the topic in question, and ultimately, to his propensity for gullible-ness.

I cannot see how a person of anything but absolute ineptness in the field of the occult could be even somewhat convinced of the validity of anything contained therein. The actual philosophy presented in the satanic bible is a crass take on material individualism, capitalising on the then recent discovery of atavistic leanings of dominance and desire. The actual ontological reasoning behind the theories partaining to instictual desire themselves being neither clear nor (seemingly) of any actual importance to the author. The book reads, - and seems to fervently desire to be read - as an end-all, be-all answer to any thinking man's philosophical wondering (we're looking for a few select individuals...) but instead is a simple book, written by a simple man, who had simple desires, and chose to go about them in what now seems in retrospect, in a pretty simple way: A profit sceme. Just send us dollars and we'll send you assurance that you're special, put right there for everyone to see in clear plastic on your satanic ID. You'll get to jerk off while a naked lady sits on an altar and some other person sounds a gong. You'll get to wear the pretty capes and you'll get to scream to the four points of the wind. You'll get to play "who's more self-important" with your other coven friends. What? You have questions? Here's some numerology. Spell out G-O-D and then multiply by seven. Eighteen is nine! Eighteen is nine!

Simply stated: Anyone who declares himself to be a satanist needs to honestly reinspect his aspirations and ambitions. God knows (haha) there's nothing stronger in a man than his ability to lie to himself. You can make yourself feel the stronger things. If the point was indeeed in what one feels, there would be merit in any philosophical path there is, because for a self-deluded man, any answer will do.

[kahljorn]

Thanks for expanding on what I said without me having to put any effort into it.

Also, Helm, do you know how to read the Enochian Columns?

I was going to start studying the Tablets but there's not really much point if I can't read it's alternate dimensions, unless I understand them on a subconscious level without realizing it.. but if that were the case it would be unnecessary to read them in the first place. So yea.