London asplode

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Originally Posted by Dole

The most frightening aspect to me about attacks like these is how easy they are to carry out, and how impossible they are to protect against. 'Al-Queada' is not some organised, pyramid shaped hierarchy that can be stopped by taking out its leaders - if Bin Laden was shot dead tomorrow, none of this would stop. Rather, its god-knows-how-many individual cells, that are probably for the most part self financing and autonomous. They get inspiration from people like Bin-laden and other hate-spouting fanatics, but there is no clear chain of command. If they find and prosecute all the people involved with yesterday, its not going to stop the 'terrorist threat'. Anyone can make a crude homemade bomb, walk into any crowded public place and do something similar. How the fuck do you prevent something like that?? And the fact that these people believe that doing such an act will propel them into heaven...they HOPE to die doing it!! Thats a fucking weapon of mass destruction right there. Going to war in Iraq and Afghanistan won't stop people like this. Tougher immigration policies won't stop it. What the fuck do we do?

I totally feel you on this one Dole, because I've been asking myself the same question as of late, coming to basically the same helpless answers you've arrived at. This sort of helpless feeling of fear and vulnerability, coupled with the psychology of those who wish to destroy us, basically accounts for my recent turn towards the "neo-conish" regarding the war on terrorism.

Certainly, simply bombing the bad countries and hoping that ends terrorism is a bad idea. But there IS some validity to the Bush/Blair approach on this. We don't need to debate Iraq, cuz I disagreed with that war, but their idea of fighting terrorism by preventing state sponsorship of it seems like a good idea. Obviously, you're right. You can't make a radical muslim like you, you can't apologize enough to them for whatever it is you've presumably done wrong, and you can't always stop someone from constructing a crude bomb and going on a subway train.

You're also right about its decentralized nature. Getting Bin Laden isn't necessarily the point. However, I read an interesting piece in the Sunday NY Times today about the dynamic of the Islamic community in London, for example. There seems to be certain communities (one right by one of the bombings?) which represent what's very positive about Islam, whereas the British government seems to be very unwilling to even take very small measures against the kind of hateful, radical financing and organizing that has gone on in in other, more militant London communities. I read that a bill is sitting in parliament which would allow the govt. to place suspected terrorists under house arrest, but its lack of popularity may kill it. I think you're right that we can't absolutely prevent these tragedies, but can't we take baby steps to make sure that our own liberal policies aren't being abused by people who would like to destroy them and what they stand for....?

'The war on terror' has never been more of a rather sick joke than it is at the moment - we are not winning it - I don't think we are even fighting it. They don't have a fucking clue.

Yet we must continue fighting, because the alternative is unthinkable. The reason these groups have been able to grow and slip in amongst us is due to our apathy, primarily. There's no cultural debate with this enemy-- This isn't, IMO, about Democrats vs. Republicans or Labor vs. Conservatives (or tories? whatever). This is about pluralistic society vs. regressive society. This is about democracy and religios freedom, vs. theocratic rule and persecution. I think internal debates about taxes and gay marriage and education are all great, but this shouldn't be a partisan issue, IMO. We need to be strong, we need to be firm, and we need to stop those who would kill civilians because they disagree with who they are. Whatever way necessary, I think.