New Orleans

[mburbank]

I've just spent the last hour reading accounts of the huge mob of people at the convention enter, who have no food or water or evac, where people are dying; and a lot of coverage about the hospitals falling apart. I've read about looters and gunplay and people shooting at helicopters, which I think pretty much defines madness in this situation.

What I'm about to ask is from a totally niave standpoint so any one with any actual knowledge should chime in...

I known there's fair amount of people and energy and money trying to help out down there, but... this is the biggest disaster of my lifetime. It makes 9/11 look small by comparison. Shouldn't we be pouring everything we have into this? I mean, I know martial law has been declared, but shouldn't huge amounts of our armed forces be there now, shouldn't we be airlifting out huge numbers of people instead of busing some of them to Texas? It just seems to me the national presence is floundering here, and it's still hurricane season. What if another storm hits?

This should be a major, national emergency and I don't mean to say it's being ignored, but is this the best we can do? haven't we been supposedly preparing for huge scale disasters for four years now?

[GAsux]

I can address the military aspect. In terms of medical relief, search and rescue, and local transport the military was and is actively invovled. In terms of getting "heavies" in there to transport large numbers of people out, there's no where for them to land. You're still looking at having to bus them hours out of the area to a location you can fly in and out of. There's still the issue of where to put all the refugees too.

As for the law enforcement aspect, active duty folks are prevented from engaging in civil police matters outside military installations. Hence not seeing any active duty military folks being brought in to police the streets. The Guard units will have to do the bulk of the work in terms of restoring order.

I've been to New Orleans several times. I can understand given the relative poverty that most folks in the area live in along with the geography that no matter how many resources you mobilize it's going to be a long haul. As long as there is 10 feet of water on the ground you aren't going to be able to restore basic services. In addition, it will likely take days to clear roads, not to mention figure a way in and out via the 10 which is virtually the only major thoroughfare in and out of the city as it's been completely destroyed in some places.

[mburbank]

Thanks for the info.

I've only been to New Orleans once, but I was really taken with the place and I'm finding this all pretty horrible.

Couldn't we air drop (lower from copters) food, water and medicine to at least the folks at them convention center? Why is there no govt, presence there? Reports from the scene are that there's no agency there taking charge of anything or giving out any information, and keep in mind, these folks can't get on the internet, get a paper or turn on the TV. I'm sure it's a logistical nightmare but it just seems to be going very slowly especilly concidering that we're supposed to have been gearing up for big time diosasters.

[GAsux]

Yeah Im not sure on the FEMA end of it, again Im only familiar with the military end of it. I'm guessing the scale is so large that they're still tryin to establish some kind of command and control over the situation.

If you've worked in and around any government agency, it would likely give you some indication as to the level of beuracracy and nonsense that afflicts it at almost every level. Ive seen citiest "war-game" disaster scenarios on a small scale (plane crash, terrorist attacks, etc) and even on such a small scale the coordination between rescue, law enforcement, medical, infrastructure, etc was an absolute nightmare.

Not sure why they haven't explored the option of air dropping supplies in as they can do that with a high level of accuracy.

I spent a few months living in Biloxi and have some friends there. Im shocked by the devastation in the pictures. To be honest I think they're/we're lucky in a sense that it hit where it did because we're really only dealing with one major metropolitan area. Imagine if more than one large city had been affected at the same time.

[doopa]

It's unbelievable. There is just no excuse for it

http://www.ameratsu.com/media/vid/ms...on_center_tony _zambado_050901a.wmv

http://movies.crooksandliars.com/And...u-Katrina1.wmv

[mburbank]

Yeah, FEMA is now saying they didn't know anyone was at the convention center until Yesterday.

I think if that was the truth, I'd be quiet about it. 'Cause it was on the TV.

[Skulhedface]

I don't know much about the political or even military ramifications of the situation in New Orleans, but since I'm probably the person on the boards who lives closest to the situation I can tell you about how it's affecting us all personally.

While I think the state as a whole feels betrayed by the government, I must say that on the whole the people of Louisiana really did impress me. I never knew any of the people I knew were the volunteer-types until I'd run into several of them at the Cajundome at one point or another helping out. It actually brought a smile to my face, because on the surface we're all sarcastic assholes but deep down we do want to do the right thing.

The situation in New Orleans... well, all I know is that the presence of the Armed Forces is sorely needed, as New Orleans has basically been picked dry and it's actually spread out of the city as far as the capital. I live two hours away from New Orleans and even we're starting to feel the effects of it.

I know my sister attends college and her professors are giving all the students warnings about traveling alone simply because the situation is escalating in Baton Rouge, and in a western direction we're the biggest city next in line. Baton Rouge has problems now with looters, vultures and just plain carjackers shooting people after they fill up their cars with gas and taking off with the cars.

We could use the national guard in New Orleans, perhaps, but just as much in the surrounding areas, as it is starting to spread and becoming a much bigger problem.

My father and I discussed New Orleans being rebuilt and he said it'd be stupid not to, not just for our state's economy but for the nation's as well, as a good 25% of all oil is imported/refined in New Orleans. Without it, since Louisiana is barely hanging on by a thread as is, we may as well be New Alabama.

One would think the government would be paying MUCH closer attention to this.

[doopa]

Everyone should hear this:

http://www.i-mockery.net/viewtopic.php?t=19136

[doopa]

yep max:

"Mike Brown tells CNN he didn't know the New Orleans Convention Center was being used as a staging area for evacuees until he saw news coverage"

how the holy fuck! it's all so unbelievable and just disgusting

[VinceZeb]

Just dropping food into areas would cause more trouble than it is worth. The armed mobs would take it over and the people that need it the most (women, children, the sick, the old) wouldn't get jack shit.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

People need to donate. Donate whatever you can.

http://www.redcross.org/
http://www.nationalservice.gov/about...ions/index.asp
http://www.ob.org/
http://www.salvationarmyusa.org/
http://www.feedthechildren.org/site/...otorg_homepage
http://www.bnaibrith.org/
http://www.catholiccharitiesusa.org/

Pick your favorite!

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Originally Posted by VinceZeb

Just dropping food into areas would cause more trouble than it is worth. The armed mobs would take it over and the people that need it the most (women, children, the sick, the old) wouldn't get jack shit.

You're absolutely right. Before we can start providing relief services, someone needs to maintian order there.

We need someone capable, with the instincts of a cougar, and the strength of a bear. The miltary isn't cutting it, nor is the police.

No, we need.....a samurai. Nay, a Catholic samurai. Someone who will kick ass, take charge, and simply tell it like it is. But where can we find such a scholar/poet/warrior...? WHERE???

[Abcdxxxx]

Where are these mobs of people shooting shit up? Because you would think if this was all so rampant, we'd get to see some of it on tv like we're seeing everything else... so I don't buy it... it's just a diversion, to blame the victims trying to survive.

[VinceZeb]

Originally Posted by KevinTheOmnivore

You're absolutely right. Before we can start providing relief services, someone needs to maintian order there.

We need someone capable, with the instincts of a cougar, and the strength of a bear. The miltary isn't cutting it, nor is the police.

No, we need.....a samurai. Nay, a Catholic samurai. Someone who will kick ass, take charge, and simply tell it like it is. But where can we find such a scholar/poet/warrior...? WHERE???

Maybe you should just quit being a fucking dipshit and do what I did... donate money and time.

Wait, that would mean putting money where mouth is located. Something you aren't all that skilled at.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

How would you even be capable of knowing what I've done and will do? You did see the post about links to where you can donate, right? Would you like a copy of my receipt? Will that convince you that I care just as much as you do, Sensei?

[Cosmo Electrolux]

Originally Posted by VinceZeb

Maybe you should just quit being a fucking dipshit and do what I did... donate money and time.

Wait, that would mean putting money where mouth is located. Something you aren't all that skilled at.

I think you're a fucking liar......I can say with a degree of certainty that you've never donated anything in your entire miserable life...nor have you ever shown anything even remotely resembling compassion...so shut the fuck up and go fix your goddamned web site....

[Geggy]

i'm already donating enough as i fill up the tank of my car with gas every other day. that leaves me with little left to donate to one of these websites.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Then see what's going on locally by you. Maybe a church or firehouse is throwing together a clothing and/or can drive. I'm sure there's at least one can of beans in the cupboard you aint touchin.

[mburbank]

"I think it puts into question all of the Homeland Security and Northern Command planning for the last four years, because if we can't respond faster than this to an event we saw coming across the Gulf for days, then why do we think we're prepared to respond to a nuclear or biological attack?" said former House Speaker Newt Gingrich.



When Newt Ginsrich and I agree on something, it's true. That's a law of physics.

And Vinth. You make a powerful and persuasive argument for not dropping food and water. The strongest and worst people would grab it and use it for their own profit. What we need in their is some sort of structure to protect the weak from the strong and make sure all the goods are divided based on peoples needs. I think if some people have more goods than others, they should be forced by some system of... I don't know what to call it... to share what they have.

[Sacks]

Originally Posted by Abcdxxxx

Where are these mobs of people shooting shit up? Because you would think if this was all so rampant, we'd get to see some of it on tv like we're seeing everything else... so I don't buy it... it's just a diversion, to blame the victims trying to survive.

Because everyone is jumping at the chance to try to catch some maniacs shooting shit up on tape.

[Abcdxxxx]

Because noboy ever reports from war zones, or sniper shoot outs ever. We've never seen bullets being shot on TV before, I guess.

I could be very wrong, but my guess is the hooligans and snipers are more rumor then anything, with some sporadic incidents that the authorities flipped out over - and as a result, they created copycats who wanted in on that action because they're desprate. That reporters & officials weren't able to differentiate between crime and survival makes all claims of unlawful behavior suspect to me.

[VinceZeb]

Originally Posted by mburbank

"I think it puts into question all of the Homeland Security and Northern Command planning for the last four years, because if we can't respond faster than this to an event we saw coming across the Gulf for days, then why do we think we're prepared to respond to a nuclear or biological attack?" said former House Speaker Newt Gingrich.



When Newt Ginsrich and I agree on something, it's true. That's a law of physics.

And Vinth. You make a powerful and persuasive argument for not dropping food and water. The strongest and worst people would grab it and use it for their own profit. What we need in their is some sort of structure to protect the weak from the strong and make sure all the goods are divided based on peoples needs. I think if some people have more goods than others, they should be forced by some system of... I don't know what to call it... to share what they have.

Oh, I get it! You are supposed to lead me to say something about socialism, which is something I have a quote about in my sig. You have a little chuckle, then after this response you post what it says on my old web site and you go back to being worthless and stupid.

Gotcha.

[maggiekarp]

I don't think it's important how much help you're giving more than another, so much as help is being given.

[nothing4buddha]

I agree, donate what you can. I donated 15 to red cross the other day and when i got paid today i donated another 20. A little bit really goes a long way.

[sadie]

i was crying today on the way home from work after climbing inside an imaginary survivor's skin.

it's hard enough trying to be a good mom when it's about instilling respect and self-control. it's tears at me inside to imagine being in that devastation. nowhere to sleep. no food to eat. no shoes on their feet. and people gone lunatics with big guns.

a guy was on npr, saying he'd been sleeping on his grandparents' tomb to avoid the cottonmouths slithering around the unearthed caskets everywhere.