This just in: good news from Iraq

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Originally Posted by Preechr

Islamic extremists can be as "extreme" as they wish as long as they are made to understand that convincing young, impressionable idiots that they should blow themselves up will not work out in their favor. You could make that arguement that we were better off with a repressed Iraq, but you'd have to go back to the 1980's to do so.

Well, I again disagree. I think you're right about the religious aspect-- we all think we're right, and as long as we abide by the parameters and play nice, we can go on thinking just that. That's a great idea, but how will it be in practice? Will an Islamic Iraq be free of the madrasas that teach hate and suicide? Presumably, if there's some semblance of democracy and schooling, but can we risk that? Will democracy teach them not to omit the state of Israel from their text books, and stop them from preaching anti-semitism?
What about martyrdom? Will this no longer be a noble and spiritual gesture in a democratic iraq?

We're on the same page about religious co-existence, and I think we also agree about the positives of a free, deomocratic Iraq. But even the Islamic nations that are often held up as proto-types for how "it could be," such as Morocco, have produced killers.

It's now common knowledge among the people of those countries the hardships faced by waiting until the US marches in and "fixes" things... If their own leaders get too far out of line, wouldn't you think they'd start to wonder if it'd be easier to take the task in hand for themselves?

I dunno. I've heard this said about Iran for years now, and they just reverted to a hardline president with nuclear ambitions. I realize this doesn't mean Iran as a whole is accepting Islamic fundamentalism, but regardless, these "West loving kids" just elected a radical.

Dictators around the world demand less now and speak in more subtle tones, depite the fact that everybody knows we couldn't possibly manage another front in the war. Iraq is being rebuilt by Iraqis with a little help from a bigger, stronger nation. That surely sends a signal to the repressed people of other nations that it's up to them just how little "help" they get. It's probably going to best for everyone involved if they get up off their asses and overthrow their own despots...

Subtle tones? Like in Uzbekistan, or Russia? How 'bout, um...IRAN!? Demanding less??? I don't know that other nations are looking at Iraq and trembling in their boots. I think they are looking at it as an exposure of our limitations, and they will begin to speak in even "bolder" tones I believe.

When I finally do convince you of the error of your ways, it will not be because I tracked you down and blew up your car, killing your wife and kids. We are ideologically chained to a similar set of limitations to our conflicts. A small faction of Islamic evangelists have decided to loose those chains for whatever reason, and we are in the process of proving to them that, in a civilized society, there is never a good enough reason for terrorism, and that it will never be tolerated.

And I have no doubt that a modern, moderate Islam will emerge out of this someday soon. But right now, I believe there's too much of a "but the Americans..." syndrome amongst most muslims. I have known several muslims who obviously would NEVER think of hurting another human being, much less resort to terrorist tactics. But, there's the but! They also don't hold back in making excuses for those killers, for linking it to us, to Israel, to Jews, etc. etc. There remains a moral equivalence that makes excuses for terrorists. So again, this is an extreme minority, but there's a silent majority that is yet to come out en masse to denounce them and dismiss them. That is what we need.