Thank God this doesn't apply to the Catholic Church!

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Yea, well I did just talk about "Accepting problems" didn't i? That's what i was talking about, people who know they live in sin but do nothing productive to help it. "Oh, hey, I sin, I'll repent and pray, god will forgive me and i won't have to do anything". I think repentance might have a little to do with the progressive act of trying to make yourself a better person.

God forgives and judges. If a person sins and doesn't ask to be forgiven, it may be unchristianly, but it doesn't necessarily make them bad or faux Christians.

It's rare that you would ever hear one of these "hypocritical" Christians saying they are without sin, btw. in fact, they'll probably tell you 100 times that they're sinners "just like you" if you let them.

While alot may try, not many actually attain any useful state. I never said that was a damnable sinful bad thing(unless to note their own beliefs), but I didn't say it was a good thing either. Quit playing the, "We christians are insulted all the time but we're not all bad" card, it's so lame. Nobody fucking cares, I was discussing this from a culturally relevant angle.

I think then you should at least try to be "relevant." Talking in these big generalizations with no factual backing makes you sound foolish. You sound like the guy who watches the 700 Club one night and decides that all Christians are evil Republicans.

BTW, the "hey guys, I'm actually a Christian too" argument is also pretty lame. I don't care if you're an atheist or an evangelical, if you're not making a real point I'm going to call you out on it.

The catch is that religion is supposed to help people get better. How successful is it? How many does it make bad? How many hate Gays and blacks?

WHERE is this written? Where is it written that religion as a cultural institution is supposed to help everybody? Are we talking to a jew, a muslim, or a Christian?

We're talking about Christianity, so let's stick with Christianity. It pains me as a Roman Catholic to say this, but Church's, structures, and people are not the first resource for anybody. GOD is. If you want to get better, you look to God. If you want to be Christ-like, you read the Bible, and you do as it says. You're focusing far too much on religion as a cultural pacifier, which is a lame sociological thought dug up from the letters of the founding fathers.

To some, if five Christians get together in a room that's your church. To others, it's St. Patrick's Cathedral. What obligation do either of those entities have to society, OTHER than what's written in the Bible and spoken by God?

Also, how many christians(or again, people in general) who help do you think are doing it selfishly as some kind of martyrdom symptom (for example; the reason you guys are arguing this)?

Alright, you are becoming a bit of a goof ball. Please remind me one more time that you consider yourself a Christian, I need to see it again so that i remember you're actually making a point.

WHO CARES IF PEOPLE DO GOOD THINGS FOR SELFISH REASONS!? We ALL do good and altruistic things that are pleasing to us in some PERSONAL way, so who cares?

that there's enough rich religious people in the world to help all the poor people pretty much outlines my point on how unreligious religion is.

What is the point here? Huh??? I need to start seeing some Bible citations, otherwise I'm going to dismiss this as rambling.

Do something useful, not this defensive nancy girl shit you're playing. I don't enjoy your vagina monologues.

Seriously, you're close to getting your own sticky thread right under Vince's.