Israel and US's NSA connection

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Originally Posted by davinxtk

What I meant was that the arabs seem to owe them the land and americans the defense and funding

It's a matter of allowing Jews to co-exist and live as citizens in the Mid-East. It's not a matter of owing anyone anything. What a juvenile interpretation of things.

Originally Posted by davinxtk

the fact that Jews have said "next year in Jerusalem" since their place of worship got razed should have no bearing whatsoever on modern geopolitics.

Annnnnd it doesn't? ...but what it does do is prove that Jews have always had an interest in a nation of Israel. That it's not a product of the Holocaust, or of an evil invention of modern Zionism. It is proof that before idiots like you abused terminology like "geo-political" there were Jews in every part of the world talking about a Jewish homeland. That there motivation was religious doesn't undermine this.... your personal beliefs, or lack of them shouldn't cloud your judgement or ability to recognize an indigenous people. When Native American Indians reclaimed Alcatraz Island nobody used their seemingly quirky belief system as an excuse to delegitimize their claim to land that was once theirs.

Originally Posted by davinxtk

(Which in fact was motivated by the sticky situation jews happened to be in aroundabouts 1948 when Mandate Palestine was cut up and later seized by Jordan and Israel).

Seized? Learn your basic Mid-East history.
1948? There were already 500,000 Jewish residents prior to WW2. The declarations which commited to the creation of two States (one for Jews, Israel, and one for Arabs, Jordan) pre-dated WW2.

Please stop. It's becoming less and less tolerable to hear people say Jews benefited from the genocide of the Holocaust, or that the idea of a Jewish Nation wouldn't have been legit without the guilt off WW2. As a result of generations of persecution, Jews now only make up 0.2% of the population with somewhere between 12-17 million in existance. All the Holocaust did was prove the undeniable immediacy of a Jewish State.

Originally Posted by davinxtk

I am not opposed to Jewish real-estate as much as I'm opposed to a specifically Jewish nation. ..... trying to create a nation based on a largely nomadic race simply because they happen to be the majority in the area causes a whole hell of a lot more trouble than it's worth,

Cool. So why does an Islamic nation appeal to you? Or a Roman Catholic one? Are you just taking advantage of Israel being on the table for discussion or is there a double standard here? Atheism is not a superior ideology once it too becomes oppressive with didactic policies pertaining to religious freedoms. Israel is a secular nation. It's tiring that I have to repeat that so often. There is freedom of religion, and speech there, which is more then I can say for the rest of the region. 30% of the country are non-Jews. The majority of the country is secular and non-practicing.

Originally Posted by davinxtk

Yes, Israel is in fact a "chunk" of land in much the same way America, Brazil, and Russia are not. It is also in fact largely comprised of desert territory, and is right next to the Mediterranean, hence, by the beach.

It's a blip on the map. It doesn't put a dent in the vast expanse of land governed by Arab rulership. It's location is about as much of an incovenience as India is. Israel was never considered prime beach front property until Jews worked the land and created an agricultural miracle. That's the only reason why it's become a thorn in the side of the Arab League. If you sell someone a rusty broken down Ford, and then you see them whipping down the block in a refurbished shiny classic car, you can't say "look, they took my shiny classic car".