Enough lessons from these reactionary bigots!

[Abcdxxxx]

Originally Posted by I, fuzzbot.

Our papers make fun of the Israeli government (and not Israelis in general) just like Israelis make fun of us. So what the fuck do you find so offensive?

I guess you're too stupid to know....
Moses is routinely mocked in "political cartoons". When you critisize Israel using caricatures of hooked nose Jews, use Holocaust imagery, draw on old time blood libels, depict Jews as Shylocks, horned Devils, blood suckers, reference the Elders of Zion, depict soldiers wearing yarmulkes, use imagery of Orthodox or Hasidim to represent Israelis .... IT'S ANTI-JEWISH!!! Now get your head out of the sand, and stop defending Arab media for doing what the Danish and European media did.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Originally Posted by ziggytrix

There is a huge fucking gap between "bending over backwards to give the benefit of doubt" and "calling Pharoah the bigoted shithead he is".

I! think that Scru and others were! doing more than just calling out reactionary Pharaoh!!!!

I think if Christians were doing this (see classic abortion clinic cliche below), you guys would be jumping up and down like Pharaoh is!!!!

I find it curious that people think "sensible Muslims keep quiet" when first of all, we can't count the inaction of anyone under a despotic regime as indicative of their true beliefs. And secondly, in free countries people saying "hey, be reasonable!" don't garner media attention. So even if someone is speaking out, who's to say anyone is particularly listening?

To my understanding, the little demonstrations are also occurring in Europe, so that point isn't entirely relevant. However, I think you're right about the contrived outrage of muslims in Islamic/state controlled countries. But if we're to assume that these "outraged" people are merely props of the state, why should we care about their reaction at all? That would be like defending the faux protestors who Clear Channel paid to counter-protest anti-war shit.

I never heard a big Christian outcry against abortion clinic bombers. Does that mean no sensible Christian ever spoke against that atrocious behavior? I can't even imagine that's true!

There's a big difference, aside from being wrong about the outcry. Not only did Christians denounce the actions, but leaders of the respective denominations came out and publicly denounced it.

And yes, some prominent muslims have denounced the protests and threats. But the stark contrast i see is that the governements in this region, like Jordan, are actually stepping in and censoring this. They're punishing people who publish these cartoons.

I guess my take on it is if you can't laugh at yourself, even just a little bit, than you haven't evolved much culturally or religiously. All the threats of violence and stuff, well, whatever. i think those are probably a small % of muslims, yet that hasn't stopped these governments from stepping in and totally overreacting.

[Pharaoh]

Originally Posted by ScruU2wice

I already said I think muslims are going nuts over something that offends them, and It shouldn't be a surprise. I don't think they should be going as crazy as they are over this, and I don't think there is anything in Islam that says we should. I don't think that the danish should have published it in the first place, just because I think only like 3 of them make a point. I don't think that they should be barred either, if the newspaper wants to print it go ahead. I think that it was the papers right to fire any employee they choose if they believe that the employees actions are harmful to the company. But most of all I think people are stupid especially the muslim people who are up in arms over this. None of those crappy cartoons woulda got gotten a second glance if the muslims didn't see it as an attack.

So now that I have answered all of your questions as bluntly as possible, answer mine. What is your solution to the "Islamic" problems? Inquisition maybe?

The solution is to let Muslims who come to live in Western countries know that they can't demand we change our way of life and give up our freedom of speech just because they are offended by it. If we give in to this, next it will be something else, and eventually shariah law. We shouldn't let them gradually turn our societies Islamic, they should adapt to our way of life or live in an Islamic country.

[imported_I, fuzzbot.]

Originally Posted by Abcdxxxx

I guess you're too stupid to know....
Moses is routinely mocked in "political cartoons". When you critisize Israel using caricatures of hooked nose Jews, use Holocaust imagery, draw on old time blood libels, depict Jews as Shylocks, horned Devils, blood suckers, reference the Elders of Zion, depict soldiers wearing yarmulkes, use imagery of Orthodox or Hasidim to represent Israelis .... IT'S ANTI-JEWISH!!! Now get your head out of the sand, and stop defending Arab media for doing what the Danish and European media did.

I guess you're too blind and illiterate to read and understand the captions. I hardly ever come across the cartoons you're making up, and when I do (raaaaarely), it HARDLY states anything about Jews. Our Jewish community would've done something against that had we done this repeatedly. It's always about the U.S and Israel.

[Abcdxxxx]

So wait, if the 25 Jews in Bahrain aren't calling for censorship it means these cartoons don't exist?

With the imagery I described you don't even need a caption, or the word Jew... it's clearly implied.

Perhaps some of the references depicted in the cartoons are over the head of the typical teen in these countries? I have no idea, but as a Jew I can say, the only thing comparable were the "political cartoons" which lead up to Nazi Germany. It's a volatile climate these days... for everyone.

(edit: by the way. i linked you to a cartoon published in bahrain which suggests these danish cartoons are a jewish conspiracy. where do you get off saying i'm "making up" cartoons?")

[imported_I, fuzzbot.]

Originally Posted by Abcdxxxx

(edit: by the way. i linked you to a cartoon published in bahrain which suggests these danish cartoons are a jewish conspiracy. where do you get off saying i'm "making up" cartoons?")

How is this mocking the Jewish faith? Mocking Islam and Muslims are two different things, so is mocking Jews and Judaism. Just like you portray Arabs as dumb, fat, and bearded (and you can pretty much tell they're Muslim because of the "towels" and turbans on their head), we show you that the character is Jewish because of the yamaka.

So wait, if the 25 Jews in Bahrain aren't calling for censorship it means these cartoons don't exist?

Don't think these people don't have a voice, these families are incredibly powerful in Bahrain. We're not talking about your average citizens, we're talking about bank owners, bigshot writers, company managers, funny how we all know exactly who they are and no one has done anything to harm them. It's not like they're mute, they pride themselves on being Jewish and have no problem saying this in public. And you're telling me that if they found these cartoons offensive, they're not going to raise hell? Obviously you don't know shit about Bahrain and how the people there work. Obviously you just link us to other Arab countries and assume that the 'Arab press' is all just one voice, but you can't bring yourself to say 'Western press' because that would include all of Europe as well, and any shitstain out there would know better than to generalize and assume that all of these papers have similar goals and hold similar opinions. I wouldn't be surprised that you think the way you do when you talk about the 'Arab' press though (yes, 20+ countries say exactly the same shit, even in North Africa, they interpret Islam exactly the same way), since you think we're identical to Iran simply because we're situated in the "Persian Gulf."

[ziggytrix]

Originally Posted by Abcdxxxx

Perhaps some of the references depicted in the cartoons are over the head of the typical teen in these countries? I have no idea, but as a Jew I can say, the only thing comparable were the "political cartoons" which lead up to Nazi Germany.

Racism is everywhere man. And a remarkable amount of it is not directed at Jews.

[Emu]

You can't use fucking Doonesbury.

[ScruU2wice]

Originally Posted by Pharaoh

The solution is to let Muslims who come to live in Western countries know that they can't demand we change our way of life and give up our freedom of speech just because they are offended by it. If we give in to this, next it will be something else, and eventually shariah law. We shouldn't let them gradually turn our societies Islamic, they should adapt to our way of life or live in an Islamic country.

See it's not impossible to sound reasonable..

[imported_I, fuzzbot.]

Originally Posted by ScruU2wice

See it's not impossible to sound reasonable..

And it took 4 fucking pages for him to finally make up his mind.

[Abcdxxxx]

Of course racism is everywhere.....don't you find it vaguely relevant that public enemy #1 in the Arab world are the Zionists? Who do they mean when they speak of Zionists? Oh wait, put a little yarmulke on the blood sucker, and it's a little more clear. 30% of Israel are not Jewish. The yarmulka wearing population of Israel are a minority. You don't need to draw on ancient stereotypes to make a political cartoon.... but that's what cartoonists do. The sentiment is an innapropriate one. Again, I'm arguing that there shouldn't be a double standard towards hypocrisy. One could also argue that the cartoons of Mohhamed telling suicide bombers he ran out of virgins is merely political.... but point is that it's offensive to Muslims for whatever reason. It's purposely incitefull.

Oh, and Fuzzbot. You come from one of the more "liberal" Arab nations, along with Qatar, and UAE... so while Bahrain isn't exempt from the same critisicism, I am in fact speaking about the entire Arab world when I mention hate speak cartoons. Though I do have to wonder.....25 Jews left...what happened to the other 75 Jews, eh?

[Pharaoh]

Originally Posted by I, fuzzbot.

And it took 4 fucking pages for him to finally make up his mind.

Maybe you didn't notice, but it's the same opinion I've said all along.

Originally Posted by Pharaoh

Artistic representations of the human form are forbidden in Islam, and pictures of Muhammad are especially taboo. Right? In the West, however, satire is accepted and you can make caricatures of anyone. So Muslims here are demanding special treatment, and we shouldn't give in to them, if they don't like it they should leave. Why should we change our way of life to suit Muslims?

And it sounds reasonable but the problem is that Muslims won't accept those conditions, so we should refuse to let them live here. This problem is only going to get worse the more Muslims we have.
The Muslim protesters in London yesterday were praising the 7/7 London suicide bombers even though no British newspaper has printed the cartoons yet. They've only been shown briefly on TV here.

[imported_I, fuzzbot.]

Originally Posted by Abcdxxxx

Oh, and Fuzzbot. You come from one of the more "liberal" Arab nations, along with Qatar, and UAE... so while Bahrain isn't exempt from the same critisicism, I am in fact speaking about the entire Arab world when I mention hate speak cartoons. Though I do have to wonder.....25 Jews left...what happened to the other 75 Jews, eh?

There never were that many Jews to begin with, and you are so utterly clueless with your sweeping generalizing statements about the 'Arab press.'

Oh wait, maybe you were referring to Iran?

Ignorant tit.

[Pub Lover]

Originally Posted by Pharaoh

WTF?

[Abcdxxxx]

As long as an apologist like you denies anti-Jewish/anti-semitism in the Arab media, at large, I see no reason NOT to make sweeping condemnations in response.

It was the Arab media that produced a 40 part mini series on the Elders of Zion, and a 29 part series devoted to the blood libels of the Jewish Diaspora "Al-Shahat".... so keep your fat hypocritical mouth shut, and stop denying it.



Akhbar al-Kahlij, Bahrain 2004

[imported_I, fuzzbot.]

Originally Posted by Abcdxxxx

Akhbar al-Kahlij, Bahrain 2004

They're mocking the ELECTIONS, you stupid cow. They're saying Israel is behind it, just like when Israel says that terrorists are behind our elections. Boofuckinghoo, cry me a river.

We don't make fun of the JEWISH FAITH, we make fun of JEWS, and I never denied it, you piece of shit.

[ScruU2wice]

Originally Posted by Pharaoh

And it sounds reasonable but the problem is that Muslims won't accept those conditions, so we should refuse to let them live here. This problem is only going to get worse the more Muslims we have.
The Muslim protesters in London yesterday were praising the 7/7 London suicide bombers even though no British newspaper has printed the cartoons yet.

Even you said that it was a minority group of the alread minority muslims that are that radical. Most muslims are living just dandy. It doesn't take the most radical muslims to be offended by the cartoons, nor is it an unexpected request that alot of muslims want the cartoons out of the paper. They don't see it as a political, they see it as religious, there is nothing about bush, sharon, saudi princes, imams, etc. It's the founder of the islamic religion, who should have nothing to do with it.

Now I told you that I don't think that they should take it out of the newspaper since it's their freedom of speech(or have put it in at all because it's tasteless and a cheap attempt at being "offensive"), but it should not be unexpected that muslim people want it out. If you think that most muslim people would crack up over this around a cup of cofee (or Tea), you really need to retain a grip on reality.

I'm not gonna say anything about psychotic people holding the signs, They are crazy and muslim people are not too fond of those guys, either.

[imported_I, fuzzbot.]

Syrians have set fire to the Danish embassy in Damascus to protest against the publication of newspaper cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad.

Now this is fucking pushing it.

On some demonstration in Copenhagen today, they are going to burn the Koran.

[ziggytrix]

Originally Posted by Pharaoh

Didn't Britain pass some law that they could deport anyone encouraging religious/ethnic violence? Most of those probably ought to be deported or at least considered under the law for punitive action.

There's a fine line between free speech and hate speech, but someone calling for 'butchering' and 'slaying' ain't even close to the 'free' side.

[Pharaoh]

Originally Posted by ScruU2wice

Even you said that it was a minority group of the alread minority muslims that are that radical. Most muslims are living just dandy. It doesn't take the most radical muslims to be offended by the cartoons, nor is it an unexpected request that alot of muslims want the cartoons out of the paper. They don't see it as a political, they see it as religious, there is nothing about bush, sharon, saudi princes, imams, etc. It's the founder of the islamic religion, who should have nothing to do with it.

Now I told you that I don't think that they should take it out of the newspaper since it's their freedom of speech(or have put it in at all because it's tasteless and a cheap attempt at being "offensive"), but it should not be unexpected that muslim people want it out. If you think that most muslim people would crack up over this around a cup of cofee (or Tea), you really need to retain a grip on reality.

I'm not gonna say anything about psychotic people holding the signs, They are crazy and muslim people are not too fond of those guys, either.

A substantial minority of muslims here are radical, about 25%, and as the Muslim population is nearly 2 million, that's half a million radical Muslims in the UK. If it was only a small minority causing trouble then there wouldn't be editors getting sacked and top politicians apologising about the cartoons.

And I don't expect Muslims not to be offended but I do expect our media and government to defend our freedom of speech. If Muslims riot, carry hate speech banners or make death threats then they should be arrested. We shouldn't let multiculturalism errode our freedom.

[Dole]

A substantial minority of muslims here are radical, about 25%, and as the Muslim population is nearly 2 million, that's half a million radical Muslims in the UK.

and whats this based on then?

[Pharaoh]

Originally Posted by Dole

and whats this based on then?

It's based on this Telegraph poll

'One in four Muslims sympathises with motives of terrorists.'

[imported_I, fuzzbot.]

Wow, by Anthony King, huh? Yeah, that article sounds really reliable.

[Spectre X]

Yes, and we all know how accurate the Telegraph is.

It's an alien baby story away from being a tabloid, you simpleton.

[Pharaoh]

Originally Posted by Spectre X

Yes, and we all know how accurate the Telegraph is.

It's an alien baby story away from being a tabloid, you simpleton.

The Daily Telegraph? Along with The Financial Times, The Times , The Guardian and The Independent it's one of the five quality British newspapers. It's about as far away from a tabloid as you can get.

Besides which, the poll was by YouGov, they're well respected, reliable and used by all the quality British papers.

You can read The Times article on the same poll, here.

'Some 32% of respondents to the poll believed “western society is decadent and immoral and that Muslims should seek to bring it to an end�. Of these, the equivalent of some 16,000 declared themselves willing to resort to violence if necessary to achieve this.'

Try again, knucklehead.