Rumsfeld: What we've gained in Iraq

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Originally Posted by mburbank

Okay, but is that desperation significant? If it had resulted in a mass realization of the need for unity as opposed to a round robin of retribution killings, I might get on the 'Last Throes' bus, but

When rival religious leaders, including the militant leader Muqtada Al Sadr, are encouraging Iraqis to lay down arms and not fall for the terrorist ploy, I'd say the bus is on its way.

A.) It seems to have worked failry well as a tactic

In what sense? It has been effective at killing American soldiers (although not NEARLY as effective as they would like), and killing innocent Iraqi civilians. It has caused rivaling religious leaders to stand together and denounce the violence, and it has pushed higher and higher voter turnout at every election in the country.

if by effective you mean these things, then ok.

If desperation was a sign that any of the factions were closer to loosing than before they were desperate, that would be swell.

There's nothing wrong with factions. The United States was a collection of factions. We (sort of) got over it. What's wrong is violence and a disregard for lawful behavior. Those are the things that will hold Iraq back, and those things have been tried and fought at every attempt. They can't beat American troops, so they blow up troops and civilians. They can't instigate civil war that way, so they target Islamic holy sites. The big civil war there never happened, and was partly stifled by Iraqis themselves. Iraqi spiritual and political leaders collectively denounced it, and called them out for their lame attempt to turn Iraqi vs. Iraqi. What more can they do? They are small, weak, and increasingly marginalizng themselves from sypmathizers.