Helm

[Vibecrewangel]

Just wanted to say thanks.

I enjoy talking to people like you. People who are always searching and learning. People whos oppinions are fomed based on experience as opposed to simply basing it on what someone else tells you.

This of course goes for a lot of you on this board Proto, Max, Kevin, Ror, Sadie and Kelly to name a few.

Helm just happened to be the one at the moment who reminded me that not all people blindly follow what they are taught. They question. I like that in a person.

[VinceZeb]

Yes, because questioning everything means you are an intelligent person.
All it means is that you have a bit of a distrusting streak in you. Nothing more, nothing less. EVERYONE questions things in their life. Just because they are not up there questioning everything in existence does not meant hat they do not 'seek the truth'.

But maybe ones with steadfast convictions should not apply, because it is obvious they didn't question anything and they haven't found a truth. They were just force-fed others views and believed them because they were stupid and easily manipulated.

Just thought I would add that in before the book deals start rolling in for the little enclave of "free thinkers" on this board.

[Vibecrewangel]

Okay Vince
Why do you beleive in the Christain God?

[liquidstatik]

I believe in the christian god But, the main reason I do is that I have been brought up in a christian home. God may not exist, but I have faith that he does. And if he does, im going straight to heaven, if he doesnt, I guess ill just die :/ I see it as, why not have faith in him. If he doesn't exist, its not like you've wasted your whole life eating wheaties or anything. But if he does exist, you'll live for eternity with him in heaven.

I just read over this, and it sounds a little funny but... im not good at making sense

[VinceZeb]

Why do I believe in God is the question you meant to ask. There is no "Christian" God, as you "smart" people like to snidely point out. It is GOD. Period. One of em. No more, no less.

Why do I believe in God, and his son the Savior and Redeemer of Mankind? Very good question. A simple answer would be to say that I am not naive or cocky enough to believe that the human being is the greatest creation in the universe.

Now, a complex answer:

I was raised Catholic. Went to Catholic school, all that good stuff. Two days before my 18th birthday and 9 days before HS graduation ceremony, my father passed away. Needless to say that I was crushed beyond belief. I spent the summer moping and questioning EVERYTHING I had been taught. I went off to college and came back for Christmas. Visited friends, noticed a lot of them had become druggies and losers. Couple had turned atheists and could never really explain why. 3 months later my grandfather died and 2 after that my grandmother died. After all this in this short period of time, I washed my hands of God. Did not believe in anything, and accepted the fact one night that I would die. It scared the shit out of me. Used to lie in bed every night and think about what it would be like to die. That I would not see my family and friends again. That what we do here is meaningless and not worth the effort. Never thought of suicide, but just thought that life was one big rat race with no trophy at the end. Just a dirt hole.

After some time, I began to see the world around me. I noticed little things that started to instill me back with a faith... maybe not in God, but in something. I began to research different faiths and never could put my hand on anything solid, because the holes were just too damn big. Finally I looked at what I have always been a part of: Christianity and mainly Roman Catholicism. I studied up again on many of the reasons why I loved my faith in the first place, and put my scientific reasoning into place to see if history validated my beliefs. I found through months of research that history validates Judeo-Christian belief and thought and history more so than any other religion on the planet. So, God called me back to His Church. I came back. My life has been better than ever.

I am confident in my faith because I am 100% sure that there is Good and there is Evil. I believe in Lucifer. I've seen and felt the presence of him in the world around me. Evil does exist to me, it is not some abstract concept that we should throw away so we can evolve to something more pure. People who throw away the concept of evil are people that are easily subdued by it. They do not think, so they are caught up in it and die. I believe that America is the best country that God allowed mortal men to build, because it evokes the free will God allowed us to have. We can do what we want, but there are consequences to our actions. Micro-evolution is real, Macro-evolution is complete and utter bullshit that takes more faith to believe in than Scientology. Science and religion have no reason to be mutually exclusive, but science needs to learn that it can not explain everything that happens. It cannot explain emotions. It cannot, try as it may, explain love.

The power of the soul is truly something that should be admired. I believe there are things to fight for. I believe in stopping evil where it may arrive. If it costs me, so be it. The true heroes are remembered. They face danger without fear. That is truly admirable.

I am just rambling on now. But I could go on forever why I believe in what I do. I question everyday. But I am not stupid enough to question to the point where I do not believe in anything.

edit: Had to edit the sentence I hurried to finish. Whoops.

[Vibecrewangel]

Simple answer is best. You went with what you were taught.

If you were born in an African Tribe or on a Native American reservation wouldn't your view be different?

What other ones did you look into?

[VinceZeb]

Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Mormonism, "New Age", Neo-Paganism (I know, general name, but basically sums it up), Wiccan, Baiali (or however you fucking spell it), and many more.

And no, I just didn't go with what I was taught. If that were the case, I would be a card carrying Democrat and be in a trade union.

[Vibecrewangel]

I should mention my dear that you looking to use science to prove or disprove to yourself what you now believe is EXACTLY what I was talking about in the first post.

[VinceZeb]

1) I hope you are a woman, because calling me dear if you are a guy would be... well.. really gay.

2) I am not following your last statement. Maybe I am just tired. Please elaborate.

[Vibecrewangel]

Yes I am a woman. Thought the gay statment ain't too far off the mark. Bi-actually. But I digress.

When I say question things I mean looking deeper or at least look at all sides. Don't just blindly accept what you are told.

The fact that you have looked into as many other religions as you have shows that you questioned. Your choice to stay with what you have is based more on what YOU learned than on what someone else told you was real.


You mentioned Scientology in another post. Please tell me you understand my next refference.....

AILEN CLAM CLUSTERS




I am so alone in when it comes to Scientology........those people facinate me more than the new breed of Satanist who actually worship Satan. Dumb asses don't even know what their religion is about.

[VinceZeb]

Scientology is great just in the fact that the creator says it was a way to make money. I'm sorry, but when the guy who created your belief pratice says you are stupid for following it, you know you have issues.

[Vibecrewangel]

Have you heard the theory that Gardner (The creator of Wicca) and Hubbard actually got into a drunken contest over who could create the more successful religion?
I haven't looked into that yet......just not that important at the moment.

[VinceZeb]

Wicca was one of if not the first religions I looked into and my bullshit meter almost exploded. I'm sorry, but just because something is "older" than the gold standard of religions, doesn't mean it is better or is the right one. That's like saying we all should drive Model T cars because they were made first. Hell, I wish someone could explain to me what Wicca is. The woman I buy my comic books from in my hometown is either a Wiccan or Neo-Pagan. I feel.... weird when I go in there. I know I shouldn't be fearing the boogie man or anything, and the lady is really nice, but the place just seems.... well, "evil." Maybe it is just me.

[Vibecrewangel]

Actually Wicca was created in the 60's
And is not a nice fluffy religion.

You probably got you hands on some Llewellyn books. They stripped it down and made it into what most neo-pagans want.
Makes me want to vomit.

If you are seriously interested on finding out what Wicca is go to
http://www.whywiccanssuck.com/

The site is fantastic! And funny as hell.


As for religions being "the right one".....
That is completely subjective.

Especially since it is all just a way of understanding a concept.

[Jeanette X]

Originally Posted by VinceZeb

Wicca was one of if not the first religions I looked into and my bullshit meter almost exploded. I'm sorry, but just because something is "older" than the gold standard of religions, doesn't mean it is better or is the right one. That's like saying we all should drive Model T cars because they were made first. Hell, I wish someone could explain to me what Wicca is. The woman I buy my comic books from in my hometown is either a Wiccan or Neo-Pagan. I feel.... weird when I go in there. I know I shouldn't be fearing the boogie man or anything, and the lady is really nice, but the place just seems.... well, "evil." Maybe it is just me.

Why did your bullshit meter explode when you say you don't even know what it is?

[theapportioner]

Science and religion have no reason to be mutually exclusive, but science needs to learn that it can not explain everything that happens. It cannot explain emotions. It cannot, try as it may, explain love.

Just you wait.

Where art thou, o god of the gaps?



np - the Gathering - Souvenirs

[VinceZeb]

When you read so many books on the subject and then you really didnt "learn" anything about the subject, it tends to set off alarms.

[Vibecrewangel]

Fuck Llewellyn. Fuck them right in the eye.


App - Loved the quote!

[Protoclown]

Originally Posted by VinceZeb

But I am not stupid enough to question to the point where I do not believe in nothing.

Here is another treasure for Max. You didn't say what you think you said here, Vince. In fact, you said the exact opposite of what you intended (albeit in a very clunky manner).

I would argue that the more one questions things around them, the less likely the chance is that they would believe in nothing, and that those who question NOTHING are far more likely to believe in it.

[Miss Modular]

Originally Posted by VinceZeb

Wicca was one of if not the first religions I looked into and my bullshit meter almost exploded.

Max, take note.

[Vibecrewangel]

Proto -
Can I steal that? I want to put that up on another board. With credit to you of course.

[theapportioner]

I would argue that the more one questions things around them, the less likely the chance is that they would believe in nothing, and that those who question NOTHING are far more likely to believe in it.

And what do you mean by "believing in nothing"? Expound.


np - the Gathering - Souvenirs

[Protoclown]

Vibe, feel free to use whatever you like.

Grandfather SMASH ( ), I was merely replying to what VinceZeb said and basing my use of the phrase off that. I don't know what he meant by "nothing", but I interpreted his use of the word to mean that a person who believes in nothing simply doesn't have any set system of personal beliefs that belong to them. That was my take on it, anyway.

Now I don't think that his definition of "believing in nothing" includes the mindless parroting of beliefs that were shoved off onto someone, which is a part of my own definition of that idea.

In no way was I ever referring to an actual belief in nothing, or nihilism or 'the absence of something', or anything akin to those ideas.

[kinot]

Where the hell is Helm when you need him