To be more than human is to be human

[Jeanette X]

What makes you think space travel and flesh and blood are compatible..?

Spaceships, you twatwaffle.

Okay... so then we could pose your own question to you; what is human, and what is consciousness exactly? And why is it impossible for our consciousness to change from human to something different?

I'm not sure. I'll have to chew that one over for a while, actually.

I think when you say, "Ultimately human" you're really saying similar in the way that we are now with similar qualities and things like consciousness and a social structure and stuff but just because THOSE THINGSG are similar doesn't mean that we haven't departed from i dunno ignorance and evil and social injustice or somethin\g whatever and aprt of this thred is that to be more than human is to be human but i think thats the piece of the puzzle you're missing.

If I am making sense of this gobbeldeygook that you call a paragraph, you are telling me that transhumanism will overcome ignorance, evil, and social injustice. My question is, why would it do that? The thinkers of the Enlightenment insisted that they could do that, the proponents of the industrial revolution insisted they could do that, and the 19th century colonialists insisted they could do that in Africa, South America, and Asia. Look how that turned out. Why the hell should transhumanism end any differently?

[kahljorn]

Spaceships, you twatwaffle.

Ya and the furthest we have gone is the moon which took forever. Imagine trying to fly to another solar system or galaxy...

If I am making sense of this gobbeldeygook that you call a paragraph, you are telling me that transhumanism will overcome ignorance, evil, and social injustice. My question is, why would it do that?

because of technologu and nanotechnologu. we can replace our brains and become more smarter, obviously. Plus the world around us will be vastly different with all the technology we have the access to resources and many of the normal drives and desires of human beings could even be eradicated. And those were just examples. Poverty and starvation could maybe b ehandled by things that make us not get hungry anymore and inequalities like physical strength and intelligence could be easily diminished...

The thinkers of the Enlightenment insisted that they could do that, the proponents of the industrial revolution insisted they could do that, and the 19th century colonialists insisted they could do that in Africa, South America, and Asia. Look how that turned out.

So what? Were they replacing their bodies entirely with robots and living thousands of years in the future from now?

and anyway it's not as if the enlightenment and the industrial revolution didn't have a huge affect on our society; even if it didn't solve our problems completely.

I'm not sure. I'll have to chew that one over for a while, actually.

You're a real deep thinker.

Be careful because you risk either making it so nobody is human or so that chimps are human :O

and also what distinguishes humans from equally/more intelligent/developed/emotionally-sensitive extra-terrestrials?

you know transhumanism does seem pretty optimistic though!

[Jeanette X]

Originally Posted by kahljorn

Ya and the furthest we have gone is the moon which took forever. Imagine trying to fly to another solar system or galaxy...

What makes you think that robo-bodies would be easier to create than spaceships?

because of technologu and nanotechnologu. we can replace our brains and become more smarter, obviously. Plus the world around us will be vastly different with all the technology we have the access to resources and many of the normal drives and desires of human beings could even be eradicated.

And who would be the one to decide what drives and desires should be eradicated in the first place? Who is going to put force their view of morality upon the masses by tinkering with their brains?

Good Lord. Even Kulturekampf could write more intelligently.

[kahljorn]

What makes you think that robo-bodies would be easier to create than spaceships?

All your arguments are picking on stupid details ;/ The nearest star is like 5 light years away which would take like 30 years or something i don't know the calculation but it would be a very long time. WHAT MAKES YOU THINK HUMANS CAN DEAL WITH THIS PSYCHOLOGICALLY OR BIOLOGICALLY? Some people theorize some type of hibernation to over-come this, but what type of life is that, and how healthy physically and psychologically.

I don't know personally I think space travel is ABSOLUTELY HORRIFYING.

And it doesn't have to be completely robotic, I only brought up the completely robotic thing to show you how far it could go, potentially, since all your arguments were like HAY THARS STILL LIKE 2 BIOLOGICAL CELLS IN THER THATS HUMAN.

It's not like transhumanism is going to drastically depart from the details of being human, just like, if a new evolution occured which "advanced the species," in a purely biological way it could POSSIBLY (LOOK AT THE WORD POSSIBLY) be considered transhuman; but regardless, it is a different species yet it will still share many qualities with humans, just like chimps do.

And who would be the one to decide what drives and desires should be eradicated in the first place? Who is going to put force their view of morality upon the masses by tinkering with their brains?

How is this even remotely relevant to the fact that it could happen and according to most of the standards you set and the standard i set and you refused to agree or disagree with it's done shut up don't insult my intelligence when you're not even arguing ;/

I like how you go from me talking about poverty and starvation to CONTROLING THE MASSES MINDS WITH BRAIN CONTROL VIA ROBOTIFICATION. It's possible people could CHOOSE to become robotic or some kind of mixture of the two, for benefits for themselves and family. In fact, in modern times, haven't people installed chips or something in their child's brain which is supposed to make them smarter?

Furthermore, I like how you ignore good parts of an argument such as the fact that it could help to equalize intelligence and physical abilities, and your only point in return is that WHO HAS THE RIGHT TO CONTROL PEOPLES MINDS LIKE THAT? then declare me stupid. Sounds like a strawman.

I'm only doing you a favor by arguing with you so dont be a fallacious jerk

[Jeanette X]

Originally Posted by kahljorn

All your arguments are picking on stupid details ;/ The nearest star is like 5 light years away which would take like 30 years or something i don't know the calculation but it would be a very long time. WHAT MAKES YOU THINK HUMANS CAN DEAL WITH THIS PSYCHOLOGICALLY OR BIOLOGICALLY?

What makes you think that humans could deal with any of your proposals psychologically or biologicallly? I find the idea of a cramped spaceship infinintely less scary than being made into a Borg.

It's not like transhumanism is going to drastically depart from the details of being human, just like, if a new evolution occured which "advanced the species," in a purely biological way it could POSSIBLY (LOOK AT THE WORD POSSIBLY) be considered transhuman; but regardless, it is a different species yet it will still share many qualities with humans, just like chimps do.

So is that how humans will be regarded by this new species? Chimps? The prospect of being treated like a chimp doesn't exactly enthrall me.

I like how you go from me talking about poverty and starvation to CONTROLING THE MASSES MINDS WITH BRAIN CONTROL VIA ROBOTIFICATION.

Well, given your insistance that cybernetics would allow for fundamental changes in the negative aspects of human nature, what is to stop those in power from forcing it on the masses "for their own good"? Sure, in an ideal world the technology would be used fairly and justly and never forced upon anyone, but in the real world, that doesn't happen.

It's possible people could CHOOSE to become robotic or some kind of mixture of the two, for benefits for themselves and family.

Sure they could choose. But are the powers that be going to let them? And is everyone going to have equal access to this technology, or is it just the wealthy?

In fact, in modern times, haven't people installed chips or something in their child's brain which is supposed to make them smarter?

Not that I'm aware of.

Furthermore, I like how you ignore good parts of an argument such as the fact that it could help to equalize intelligence and physical features, and your only point in return is that WHO HAS THE RIGHT TO CONTROL PEOPLES MINDS LIKE THAT? then declare me stupid. Sounds like a strawman.

Alike and equal are not the same, not to mention the fact that intelligence is notoriously difficult to quantify and measure. If we "equalize" one type of intelligence, what is to prevent this change in the brain from lowering a different type of intelligence. We know very little about how the brain works, and I am quite reluctant to tinker with something that we have little understanding of. I have only the most minimal understanding of how my car works, so therefore, it would be an extremely bad idea for me to start tinkering around under the hood to make it go faster.