Gay Marriage Ruled Legal in Connecticut

[Jeanette X]

I don't know isn't law about limiting people's freedoms to some extent so that society can function more evenly and fairly? Isn't it accepted to some degree that people don't have the right to make certain choices/?

If that's the case, then perhaps it would be better for families to outlaw divorce entirely.

This is a good response. The only problem is that you could only bring this up if I complained that the rights aren't equal. Which I haven't done. Instead, I've been bringing up reasons why gays shouldn't be allowed to get married.

It's not just about divorce but about the value they attach to their marriage. And it's not just about their marriage, either, it's about the institution of marriage -- which they just happen to be a part of. In effect I think they take it as a type of mockery of their own marriage. Most people don't like it when other people mock things which they hold dear.

If its about preventing marriage from being mocked, then I think that the first point of order would be to shut down the 5 minute wedding chapels in Las Vegas where the marriage is performed by Elvis impersonators rather than to stop gay marriage. Furthermore, if someone mocks a religious person's beliefs, does that mean that they stop going to church? Lord knows religion has been mocked mercilessly in this country, yet fully half of it identifies as Christian.

In i n truth, it's exclusivity may have a large part to do with their feelings on the issue. Do you want to be part of a club that lets everybody in and has no restrictions? And the value society places on it, as well; they think that it shows society holds less of a regard for it. And thus their marriage, which maybe makes them feel bad about themselves.

It isn't a matter of society holding marriage in less regard, it is a matter of them holding marriage in less regard. Would I want to be a part of a club that only let in single Ashkenazi Jewish women with plantar faschitis and anthropology degrees who are stuck in shitty retail jobs? I could be part of it, but what is the point? The exclusion of everyone who isn't like me from the club does not mean that it is somehow a great club to be a part of, its just arbitrary.

I don't really know if marriage is necessarily about people loving each other and being together. If so, a lot of people would never marry.

Marriage is about entering a recognized social contract with a person who you love and want to be with. It is loving a person to the point where you are willing to enter into this legally binding agreement with them.

Maybe part of the reason why we should keep the institution of marriage as cohesive as possible is so that the less stable elements in society will still have something to come together for.

I think we could benefit from the less stable elements of society NOT getting together and raising children.

Sometimes we have to stop wrongs in order to be right

But do you try to intervene and keep people from eating pork and shellfish because of the health risks? Is is your place to say we can't have Red Lobster? The negative health risks from these foods present a more obvious and uncontestable danger to public health than gay marriage ever could, yet there is no controversy surrounding them. Why the double standard?

[kahljorn]

If that's the case, then perhaps it would be better for families to outlaw divorce entirely.

I agree. Especially if there are children in the household! but you could ask which would be in their best interest... and anyway, there is a difference between having two parents in your life for the first ten years and then them divorcing, than never having two parents.

If its about preventing marriage from being mocked, then I think that the first point of order would be to shut down the 5 minute wedding chapels in Las Vegas where the marriage is performed by Elvis impersonators rather than to stop gay marriage.

Okay I can agree with that but I don't necessarily see why this means we should let gays get married. If anything it means both of them should be stopped.

Furthermore, if someone mocks a religious person's beliefs, does that mean that they stop going to church?

This isn't just about some person sitting on the side going, "MARRIAGE IS STUPID" or something. This is about the church itself becoming a mockery, not merely people mocking the church. I can guarantee you, if a church was a mockery and there were always people inside the church mocking the people coming to church they probably wouldn't go back to that church unless they liked jokes.

It isn't a matter of society holding marriage in less regard, it is a matter of them holding marriage in less regard.

Oh ok i guess i forgot that you were the one making these arguments.

Would I want to be a part of a club that only let in single Ashkenazi Jewish women with plantar faschitis and anthropology degrees who are stuck in shitty retail jobs? I could be part of it, but what is the point?

What is the point? Why would you want to be part of a club that doesn't let people like you in? Why should gays want to be part of a group that doesn't want them in?

The exclusion of everyone who isn't like me from the club does not mean that it is somehow a great club to be a part of

That's total horseshit. When you hang out with your friends do you want a bunch of douchebags coming along and trying to hang out with you? Aren't there clubs specifically for black people? Do you think they should have to let white people into the club?
Do you think chess clubs should let in people that don't play chess?
What's the point of clubs if they are for everyone?
no girls allowed ok
EXCEPT regular girls

Marriage is about entering a recognized social contract with a person who you love and want to be with. It is loving a person to the point where you are willing to enter into this legally binding agreement with them.

So if you want it, then you should be able to have it? Is that what marriage is about? Should pedophiles be able to marry youngens because they both think they love and want eachother? And why do they have to have marriage when they could have other social contracts?

Maybe marriage has as much to do with individuals happiness as it does with societies functioning ;/ cause again marriage isn't necessary for love or happiness.

I think we could benefit from the less stable elements of society NOT getting together and raising children.

Yea, well, unfortunately it's going to happen anyway.

But do you try to intervene and keep people from eating pork and shellfish because of the health risks?

People eatting pork and shellfish won't actually be detrimental to social institutions Plus I'm not exactly sure what the restriction on pork and shellfish is, only that the uncleanliness and unhealthiness of them is one potential reason. especially when it comes to pork

anyway, i gave you a secular reason why we should interfere when people are doing wrong so there you have it...

to public health than gay marriage ever could, yet there is no controversy surrounding them. Why the double standard?

gay marriage is a threat to public health?

and you know what from now on if you're going to respond to me when I'm talking to someone else read what they said first before-hand, because what they say is important as to how you can criticize me without being accurate.

[Jeanette X]

Before we continue, do you actually, seriously believe that my counterexamples of divorce and interracial marriage should be outlawed for the same reasons that you use to support your positions against gay marriage, or are you simply taking those stances just for the sake of this debate in order to neutralize my arguements against gay marriage?

Because I suspect that its the latter, and I'm frankly beginning to tire of this rhetorical dance. Most people opposed to gay marriage would not take the stances you've taken when the subjects of divorce and interracial marriage when faced with my arguements. Is this the best debating strategy that you can come up with?