Universal Health Care

[Zhukov]

Firstly, no, the "Death Panels" will not be killing people. By your own statement, they will be refusing care which may lead to death. Killing by proxy at a MASSIVE stretch.

Secondly, to be genocide it would mean that the "Death Panels" aim is the complete and purposeful elimination of this national group. I hope you aren't mad enough to suggest that Obama's aim in creating "Death Panels" is the elimination of the entirety of the US people.


Thirdly, the "DEATH PANELS" (I will never feel comfortable saying that) will be run by US citizens, so for it to be genocide they would have to be eliminating themselves.

Eliminating themselves as a national group by refusing themselves treatment for life threatening illnesses.


Do you have ANY idea how insane you are?


Stop saying it's genocide. If you read it somewhere then perhaps whomever said it isn't as smart as you once thought, and if you made it up yourself, try to think things through next time before you say them and defend them doggedly.

[TheCoolinator]

Originally Posted by Zhukov

they will be refusing care which may lead to death. Killing by proxy at a MASSIVE stretch.

I think you answered your own question. Even though you tried to hurdle over it with a feet of mental gymnastics.

Secondly, to be genocide it would mean that the "Death Panels" aim is the complete and purposeful elimination of this national group. I hope you aren't mad enough to suggest that Obama's aim in creating "Death Panels" is the elimination of the entirety of the US people.

I'm assuming since its going to ration the care of the US population then the US people will be dying from this.

I doubt they are going to kill everyone with the rationing but we are going to see a lot of deaths nonetheless.

Thirdly, the "DEATH PANELS" (I will never feel comfortable saying that) will be run by US citizens, so for it to be genocide they would have to be eliminating themselves.

These US citizens that are running the Healthcare Commissions (Rationing of care...Death Panels) will already be bought and paid for puppets of corporate interestes.....like every single politician in the world.

Remember,

Oligarchy:

They ration your care

They reduce your standard of living

They pass laws you have to follow

........This is for you....not them or their employees.

[Zhukov]

Originally Posted by TheCoolinator

I doubt they are going to kill everyone with the rationing but we are going to see a lot of deaths nonetheless.

I'm ignoring every other retarded thing you said, but this.

If their aim is not to try to kill everyone of this national group (including themselves), it's not genocide.


Shut up now.

[TheCoolinator]

Originally Posted by Zhukov

I'm ignoring every other retarded thing you said, but this.

If their aim is not to try to kill everyone of this national group (including themselves), it's not genocide.


Shut up now.

Once again,

The original question was "Is there really Death Panels in Obamacare" and the answer is, Yes.


I don't know why you're so hung up on this Genocide comment. Here, let me put it like this.......

The US people are a group of individuals that will be affected by the recently discovered Death panels. Meaning the American people will be allowed to die because of it. Meaning a group of individuals from a specific country will die because of the cuts in benefits.

Get it yet? Why does it have to be "everyone" to be genocide? Native Americans are still around and there was a genocide on them. Jewish people are still around and they had a genocide on them.

Originally Posted by The Leader

No, it's not. Zhukov isn't American.

They are passing similar laws in other countries as well.

[Zhukov]

[quote=TheCoolinator;682880]Once again,

The original question was "Is there really Death Panels in Obamacare" and the answer is, Yes.

[quote]

UHHHHHHHHH no. My original question was "why are you using the term 'genocide' when only someone with severe learning disabilities would think to use it as you have?"

The US people are a group of individuals that will be affected by the recently discovered Death panels. Meaning the American people will be allowed to die because of it. Meaning a group of individuals from a specific country will die because of the cuts in benefits.

Because there is a difference between "being allowed to die" and the deliberate and forcible elimination of this group.

Get it yet? Why does it have to be "everyone" to be genocide? Native Americans are still around and there was a genocide on them. Jews are still around and they had a genocide on them.

Had a genocide on them. Christ. Why am I discussing this? The genocide that was committed against those particular groups was not seen through to the end, obviously. Why would Obama target this national group that HE HIMSELF BELONGS TO? For it to be genocide against the US people (your words) then the entirety of that group has to be targeted. If it's not targeting people for their national heritage (or race, religion etc) then it's not genocide.

[TheCoolinator]

Originally Posted by Zhukov

UHHHHHHHHH no. My original question was "why are you using the term 'genocide'

That's your question not THE original question.

they will be refusing care which may lead to death. Killing by proxy at a MASSIVE stretch.

^ Your quote.

The US people are a group of individuals that will be affected by the recently discovered Death panels. Meaning the American people will be allowed to die because of it. Meaning a group of individuals from a specific country will die because of the cuts in benefits.

^ My quote.

This should answer your question.

Because there is a difference between "being allowed to die" and the deliberate and forcible elimination of this group.

"Allow to die"

Wouldn't that be....murder? on the US people....which would be....Genocide since it's a specific group of people?

Why would Obama target this national group that HE HIMSELF BELONGS TO? For it to be genocide against the US people (your words) then the entirety of that group has to be targeted. If it's not targeting people for their national heritage (or race, religion etc) then it's not genocide.

ummm....Politicians who work for international companies don't care who they harm in their actions. This is common sense. Did Stalin care that he committed genocide against millions of Russian people? No. Because he was an oligarch. He ruled. He wasn't a russian. He was the Leader of the russians. I'm not saying Stalin worked for any kind of corporate enterprise but his space in history is very similar to the callous nature of our present day politicians.

And I'm an American Citizen born here in the united states. My national heritage is that of the USA. I don't understand where you're going with this. It's all very strange.

If the Death Panels (which are real) kill US Citizens then that's a genocide against the US population. No different if it was a genocide against the British or Icelandic or Russian.

gen·o·cide
the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.

[Zhukov]

An interesting point for everyone but Coolinator; most of what people think of as Stalin's "genocides" are not in fact genocides. Hundreds of thousands of people were imprisoned, executed, starved or relocated, but because Stalin was part of the team that made up what the UN considers "genocide", they omitted political views alongside race, nation, religion etc from the treatise...

So, while genocides against many ethnic peoples still went on in the USSR; against the Cossacks for example, most people killed were killed because they were an enemy of the state for political or economical reasons, rather than racial or religious ones. Interesting, huh?

Now, back to banging my head against a wall:

the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national group

By your imagination Death Panels will be responsible for killing people through lack of care. Murder, as you see it. US citizens will die. They wont, however, be targeted by "Death Panels" with aim of eliminating them as a national group.

This is completely absurd.

Are Death Panels rounding up US citizens wherever they find them and killing them? Are US citizens forced to leave their country as refugees because of persecution? Are your Death Panels actively intent on destroying the nation of the USA?

Are they?


ARE THEY REALLY DOING THAT?

If the Death Panels (which are real) kill US Citizens then that's a genocide against the US population.

So if some mugger kills two people in a bungled hold up, and those two people are US citizens, is that genocide against the US population? Hell, the mugger might go out and do it again, killing three more people. Again on Sunday, killing an old lady. Genocide, right? I mean, serial killers are committing genocide against the US population. Obviously.

[Zhukov]

Originally Posted by TheCoolinator

They are passing similar laws in other countries as well.

Which ones? Certainly not mine. Most first world countries already have a working healthcare system.

[Colonel Flagg]

Damn. Missed 2 hours, and missed 2 pages. That'll teach me to get some work done.

Thanks, Dim, for noticing that I try to be truthful to the spirit of Coolie's messages by quoting him exactly. He should be accusing himself of twisting his own words, and not "little old me".

[TheCoolinator]

Originally Posted by Colonel Flagg

....

Come on flagg.....get over it dude. Its embarrassing.

[Colonel Flagg]

Originally Posted by TheCoolinator

If the Death Panels (which are real) kill US Citizens then that's a genocide against the US population. No different if it was a genocide against the British or Icelandic or Russian.

Originally Posted by TheCoolinator

I'm assuming since its going to ration the care of the US population then the US people will be dying from this.

I doubt they are going to kill everyone with the rationing but we are going to see a lot of deaths nonetheless.

[emphasis mine]

You call it genocide, but earlier admitted that it's not. Make up your mind, dude.

As for "rationing healthcare = death panels", I was on an HMO plan about 5 years ago (before anyone ever uttered that hackneyed phrase, "death panel") that rationed my family's healthcare. GODS, WE WERE SUBJECTED TO A DEATH PANEL AND NARROWLY EXCAPED GENOCIDE!!!! WHAT'S WORSE IS THAT WE NEVER EVEN KNEW IT!!!!

Coolie, you really need to read your posts for comprehension before hitting the "submit reply" button. I'm not calling you names nor am I being mean spirited. I'm making a kind and gentle suggestion that could help you from yourself.

[TheCoolinator]

Originally Posted by Colonel Flagg

You call it genocide, but earlier admitted that it's not. Make up your mind, dude.

I believe it's a form of genocide no matter how you twist my words. The rationing of care by this new commission will be a federally mandated death board. With immunities of course.

Rationing care against the US population = Genocide. Don't know how else to explain it to you people.

Originally Posted by Colonel Flagg

As for "rationing healthcare = death panels", I was on an HMO plan about 5 years ago (before anyone ever uttered that hackneyed phrase, "death panel") that rationed my family's healthcare.

Why didn't you take them to court? Why didn't you fight for your family? Or find another insurance plan?

See, you need to read what's going on. From the top, The new and improved government death panel WILL be in charge of deciding what tests, treatments, cures, and surgeries are allowed. If they are NOT allowed.....pay close attention now.....then your insurance...here it comes.......WONT COVER YOU. Tada! Get it? So, they'll deny you before you even need any of these medical wonders to keep on living.

Please, Read the Article. On the Death Panels and look up Peter Orzsag

[The Leader]

Originally Posted by TheCoolinator

I believe it's a form of genocide no matter how you twist my words. The rationing of care by this new commission will be a federally mandated death board. With immunities of course.

Rationing care against the US population = Genocide. Don't know how else to explain it to you people.

You can't explain it because it is not logical. Rationing of care is not the systematic and intended extermination of Americans. The goal of Obamacare is not for everyone to die and no more people will die from it than from the previous system.

[TheCoolinator]

Originally Posted by The Leader

You can't explain it because it is not logical. Rationing of care is not the systematic and intended extermination of Americans. The goal of Obamacare is not for everyone to die and no more people will die from it than from the previous system.

So a deliberate and systematic rationing of care for US citizens through federally mandated Death boards is not genocide?