Why You Love America

[The_Rorschach]

"Deny it if you wish, but the fact is, Americans hated the fucking Japanese."

I'll admit to you honestly, when I found out I was going to be stationed in Yokosuka, I tried to file for different orders because I still held a grudge. Took a few years and an appreciation of their endeavours in the Pacific War to turn my anger into admiration, but I managed to come around. The American people, by and large, I'm sure felt similarly, but there just as many who had respect for them. Even MacArthur held the Japanese in high esteem during the coarse of the war, I believe that speaks well of the diversity in American opinion of the time.

"Post-H/N pollsshow that most Americans were fine with the bombings. Granted, most would have no idea of the full ramifications for a few years, but they still knew they had fucked up two cities hardcore. Truman had an obligation to answer to the public blood lust, and he furthermore had an obligation to use weapons that drained some $2 billion from the American coffers."

Hardcare? We killed 118,000 men and women with the combined strikes, the total is placed at 160K due to sickness and cancer since. Japan lost less than two million men and women, miltary and civilian combined. . .Now compare that with China where over ten million lives were lost. Those bombs, in light of the informaton understood at the time, and situation as it existed, were the most desperate and sad necessity. I'm not proud of the action, but I stand by it Kev.


"Well, that's where we differ. I value human life, whereas you apparently value social security numbers."

You know nothing about what I value, and such a commentary reflect it. If you value human life, you should be thankful for Truman's actions as they saved needless hardship and suffering. If nothing else, they saved the 12,000 men of Bataan who had neither food nor water in their internment camp as the Japanese intended to take no prisoners whatsoever and were thus unable to care for them.


"This is utter nonsense. Every nation's hierarchy has a role in convinving their public that they are righteous and just. People in every country are prideful, as well as maliable. What you just said is the same pure shit that pieces of garbage like Osama Bin Laden use to justify the killing of innocent people."

Kev. . .Our Forefathers viewed government as a necessary evil, necessary because an organ must be in place which will intercede on behalf of the people against temporal powers which exist elsewhere in the world. Evil, because often it abuses the powers with which it has been entrusted towards tyannical ends. They believed, as I do, that the people are ultimately responsible for ensuring their government acts according to their will, and that they must resist any actions which take place without their authority. It is that spirit which is behind the "Not In Our Name" anti-Iraqi Engagement bumperstickers, and I do not believe that spirit is peculiar to America either. The People are responsible Kev, and saying they have mislead by craft politicians does not alleviate them of their duties one bit.


"Discourse is a two bladed sword, and blah blah....you justify using nuclear weapons, as did people back in the day, on the grounds that it was the most humane route to take, and would preserve the most lives all around. This is the rationale behind most progression in weaponry, that it shall be more precise, more direct, and more containable."

And someday we may get there, but I hope not too soon. It is good for people to remember that war is a last resort, when it becomes to precise, to sterile, the people will be quicker to embrace it.

"However you apparently don't care about how many "nips" you kill, nor do you care how. So don't chastize me on the grounds of humanity, because I realize it will never be humane, THAT is why I oppose it. I ask for just war if any, not humane. The two words together create an oxymoron. It is not just to punish the civilian population of any country in order to pressure or lobby the government into an action it may not have otherwise taken. Terrorists do this, not heroes."

A just war should be as human as possible, its why we don't use powdered cobalt to dust field, or napalm and flamethrowing weaponry on human targets. its the reason why lethal chemical agents are banned. Its why biological weapons are never condoned. The targets the bombs were designed for needed to be dropped on Japan for a reason: They needed to realize that despire their projected power they could be reached. They were initially targeted for military sites and set to detonate high enough above the gound that those on ground zero would not feel the full affect. You want to call our World War 2 generation terrorists? Fine, you are entitled to an opinion, but personally, I thinkt hat is probably the cruelest commentary I've ever witnessed. I think now I might have been wrong to encourage you to enter politics.

"Right, but the terms were unconditioal, and until they adhered to that, the war was still going on. The government's war cabinet wouldn't surrender, even after Nagasaki."

Read the conditions, and tell me which one we shoudl have sacrificed in the name of peace. We sacrficed Prague to Russia in the name of peace, and No Korea to the Chinese. . .How many innocent lived does peace require? War is more honest than that sort of treachery.

"I realize it's likewise all the rage to Red-bait someone who questions our government's actions, it's a tactic Vince is quite fond of."

Kevin, you are left brother. I don't need to red-bait you, you glow Crimson when the nights flicker off. I'm a blind nationalists in many regards, not because I don't see error in past actions, but because I know the limitation to human understanding, and that for those who had to make such decisions, the options we see looking back were not available to them. I a soft judge on the past, those men did the best they could, and I could not have asked for more. It was a different world then, and one I cannot help but feel I would feel more comfortable living in.

"I understand the circumstances, I understand how bloody WW II was, and I realize the stubbornness of the Japanese Empire. All of this considered, I disagree with the actions that were taken. I can't change history, nor can I condemn Truman too harshly, because he was in the position, not I. It couldn't have been an easy decision (although he reacted to the bombings with quite the zeal). "

I'm glad to hear that, many of my friends would not have even made that concession.

"Forgiving and ignoring the remaing condescension that ended your response, I suppose I'll conclude with this: America is great not because of blind nationalists who put (supposedly) the needs of the nation first, but by a whole range of ideas, ranging from Buckley conservatives to Chomsky Leftists. You can love this country, and not support her actions domestically and abroad all of the time. Period."

I've never disagreed on this point, I only resist what I feel undermines the Supreme Law of the Land. Communism is such a philosophy which would render our Constitution powerless.