CAPITAL PUNISHMENT! (Just for Kahl)

[MajorScales]

Originally Posted by Dimnos

The bible also says Jesus was down with killing sinners.

http://bible.cc/matthew/18-6.htm

The day I see a Mexican riding a Narwhal I might consider there is a Jesus. Can someone make an Avatar of that for me?

[Tadao]

I don't believe I can put anyone to death without feeling great remorse for it. Shit happens in the wild, but the subject is capital punishment. What that means to me is that a group of my peers decides on the death of an accused person. I don't fucking trust any of you to make that choice.

[Zhukov]

Idealy I would like it if anyone who murdered someone would just have some sort non-lethal or invasive means to prevent them from doing it again; like a robot attached to their brain that puts them to sleep if they are about to murder someone. THIS IS IN THE FUTURE.

[Dimnos]

How about we start scalping them? With modern medicine it can easily be non-fatal. Its a clear sign that anyone can see.

[kahljorn]

how about if we just keep them in prison :O :O

i had a response for this thread but now if I write it out i also have to respond to something dimnos said which might take extra time and I'm lazy so there ya go.

[Tadao]

It would create more jobs.

[Dimnos]

Be fun again Kahl... Come on say it...

[Zhukov]

Being in prison is not a very pleasant experience Kahl. I wouldn't wish it upon people if it could be helped.

[Dimnos]

We are talking about people who killed or raped someone else. Its not supposed to be a pleasant experience.

[The Leader]

It is for me.

[kahljorn]

"We show, on the contrary, most emphatically our regard for it by the adoption of a rule that he who violates that right in another forfeits it for himself." - John Stuart Mill on the value of life.

I don't think rights really work this way -- you can't just take them away. If they did, we could torture torturers, rape rapists, take away the right of free speech from those who would censor others, steal from thieves, cruelly and unusually punish those who cruelly and unusually punish, and refuse various protective and basic freedoms offered to all persons who deal with us so long as they have done the same to others. etc.

I don't necessarily think Justice is just about retribution, but about makings things equal. And if you think along these terms, you'll find that most persons convicted of horrible crimes have had horrible lives and have been treated like shit by society. It's not very equal or fair, in my opinion, to kill someone because of what we have made them.

[Tadao]

It sucks that we lost Jeffrey Dahmer. He was cooperating with psychologist and maybe we could have learned something important.

[kahljorn]

I guess.

I think if any crime deserves capital punishment its white collar crime :O but even then life in prison seems adequate.

[kahljorn]

The bible also says Jesus was down with killing sinners.

Thats really not a very good example of jesus saying to kill sinners. It's more like he's saying its better than you would have killed him because once he faces me (JESUS) he's gonna wish he's dead.

the old testament is filled with capital punishment charges though, like in i think deuteronomy.

[Tadao]

I think thing chanced once Jesus the hippie showed up. Before that god wanted sinners stoned to death and shit like that, and the Jesus was all like "Hey no man, that so uncool. It's not like you are any better than them. Can't we just chill and talk about this for a second?"

[kahljorn]

yea pretty much plus the new testament was basically written while they lived in roman lands or some shit so a lot of it is a response to that and a guide for how to live there.

[Dimnos]

Originally Posted by kahljorn

I don't think rights really work this way -- you can't just take them away. If they did, we could torture torturers, rape rapists, take away the right of free speech from those who would censor others, steal from thieves, cruelly and unusually punish those who cruelly and unusually punish, and refuse various protective and basic freedoms offered to all persons who deal with us so long as they have done the same to others. etc.

I think everyone has a right to live and that is a very valuable right. Once you violate someone elses right to live you have committed a VERY heinous crime that deserves a VERY heinous punishment. Basically forfeiting your right. Yes it is kind of an eye for an eye way thinking but in this case I think its very fitting. The rest of that stuff is just a slippery slope argument that is basically crap. If you torture someone (it really depends how you torture them and what the outcome was) you will more than likely get thrown in jail. Is that not torture? Rapists regularly get raped in prison and its probably fitting. Thieves, if they get caught, have to pay back damages. So yeah your basically stealing from them but its not really stealing its more reparations. The rest is kind of in a gray area and it really depends more on the circumstances and details of each case I guess?

Originally Posted by kahljorn

I don't necessarily think Justice is just about retribution, but about makings things equal. And if you think along these terms, you'll find that most persons convicted of horrible crimes have had horrible lives and have been treated like shit by society. It's not very equal or fair, in my opinion, to kill someone because of what we have made them.

You are responsible for your own actions. Thats it. No more goes on that sentence. You are responsible for what you do. To cry about how life dealt you an unfair hand is crap. Guess what. Life is unfair. No matter how bad you have it someone somewhere has it worse and isnt killing people over it. Society may have shat on you. Society may not be your friend. That doesnt make it ok to kill someone.

[kahljorn]

No matter how bad you have it someone somewhere has it worse and isnt killing people over it. Society may have shat on you. Society may not be your friend. That doesnt make it ok to kill someone.

unless its society killing people, right? "No matter how bad you have it someone somewhere has it worse and isn't killing people over it. Some criminal may have shat on you. Some criminal may not be your friend. That doesn't make it ok to kill someone."

Is that not torture?

No.

Rapists regularly get raped in prison and its probably fitting.

Uhh not necessarily. So it would be okay on your watch for prison guards to rape rapists? or like to cruelly and unusually punish people who cruelly and unusually punish? Or refuse the right to counsel to those who refuse others the right to counsel?
etc.

Thieves, if they get caught, have to pay back damages.

they take back what they stole. However, when they execute somebody they aren't taking back anything, but destroying something else.

The rest of that stuff is just a slippery slope argument that is basically crap.

It's not a slippery slope ;/

Once you violate someone elses right to live you have committed a VERY heinous crime that deserves a VERY heinous punishment.

So why does the very heinous punishment necessarily mean death? why can't it be life in prison without possibility of parole? Death really isn't even a punishment if you think about it.
And what about when you rape a bunch of little kids but don't kill them? They haven't violated anybody else's right to life, so does that mean they shouldn't be executed?

[Evil Robot]

I SOVIET RUSSIA THEY BRING YOU BACK TO LIFE AS PUNISHMENT!!!

[Dimnos]

Originally Posted by kahljorn

....

A bunch of stuff that my heart just isnt up to answering at this time. Sorry, maybe later. Im not feeling to good today.

Originally Posted by kahljorn

And what about when you rape a bunch of little kids but don't kill them? They haven't violated anybody else's right to life, so does that mean they shouldn't be executed?

Yes. Slowly if possible.

[Colonel Flagg]

Sorry to dredge up this chestnut, but the following article is relevant:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/10/20/...lty/index.html

As I believe many (including myself) have said, this system, which originally was meant as a deterrent, has failed in its intended purpose. With the advent of more lawyers and more laws protecting the civil rights of murders, torturers, rapists, and pedophiles, we're left with (probably) thousands of people on death row who will never be executed. Why have a death penalty if society doesn't use it? It only wastes money and time on people who don't deserve either.

"Thirty-five states still retain the death penalty, but fewer and fewer executions are taking place every year," said Richard Dieter, executive director of the Death Penalty Information Center. "But the overall death row population has remained relatively steady. At a time of budget shortfalls nationwide, the death penalty is turning into an expensive form of life without parole."

Sentence the bastards to LWOP and be done with it.